I think you can also be glad that someone changed their mind and got vaccinated, however reluctantly, and simultaneously be uncomfortable with that sort of coercion.
Telling someone you'll fire them if they don't get a shot isn't quite holding them down and jabbing them but it's not really a free personal choice either. Many people aren't in a position to just hop down the street into a new job.
It's understandable and acceptable in certain industries. If you are working in a care home full of vulnerable old/sick people and have decided that you will not take the vaccine for your own reasons, you can't really blame your superiors for firing you because there's a lot more at stake/to consider.
Yes, "do this or you're fired" is a coercive tactic. People who are pro-vaccine want everyone to get the vaccine. They believe it is a matter of life or death (frankly, I agree with them, but I am trying to present this neutrally). So that level of coercion, "fear losing your job if you don't do this" is exactly what I'm talking about.
If people could be persuaded to do things that are in their interest via rational discourse, and evidence favored vaccines, it wouldn't be necessary to do that kind of coercion. (Nor would it be necessary to so strenuously resist getting them, you'd just say "here is the evidence I don't need to get this," and everyone would accept it and let you live your life.) That's my whole point.
I know one person who walked away from a job months ago because he figured he'd be required to vaccinate, and another who is prepared to walk away if her job requires it.
I don't think this is a decision they made lightly.
I know somebody who's very personal to me who took the vaccine because they were threatened with termination of employment.
They live paycheck to paycheck and have a wife and 3 kids to support. They're going to have to live with themselves violating their own personal bodily autonomy because they didn't want their kids ending up on the street.
I personally find it morally reprehensible for any level of "seniority"/"authority" (be it employer, government, peers, etc) to use threats of violence (threatening with loss of employment _is_ an act of violence, I'm not swaying on that).
I don't like how society has gotten very "us vs. them" in the past couple of decades.
Many people had to make the choice of being fired if they refused the vaccine. I'm not sure that is "being conned" more like being coerced. Even though some employers have walked back or not followed through on those threats, employees had to make the choice without benefit of that hindsight.
It’s annoying to say this, but I have my shots so please don’t reply with shrill cries calling me an anti-Vaxxer
I am guessing like many he is angered at having to choose between his job and taking a vaccine he may not want to take. This same employer didn’t likely give a single shit about his safety before.
Logic says just take the shot, but people like to feel like they have some agency in life other than their employer forcing treatment on them so they can continue to be good little drones.
That is the point. 'Have a vaccine or be fired' is the same.
Sure, it isn't 'forced' as in, we will tie you up and someone will give you the vaccine, (same as have sex with me or be fired, technically I won't force myself on you) but basically amounts to the same. And taking in account that a) there are vaccine side effects (I had them and know a few others that also did) b) they don't really help with the spread, just reducing the symptoms, it shouldn't be the business deciding on it.
If the vaccine does not stop you from getting infected or infecting others, what possible justification is there to fire a young healthy person from her job for deciding against vaccination for a disease less likely to kill her than driving to work?
when you tell someone "get vaccinated or be fired" what choice do they have? My job required us to all upload our vax cards or be fired. I resisted for a few days and even applied for an accommodation on the basis of "crisis of personal conscious" but was told if my accommodation was denied then i would be fired. I eventually relented and uploaded my vax card because i wasn't going to risk my family's wellbeing over a random piece of paper.
i did file a formal HR complaint and asked for a list of other personal health information required for continued employment that was not in my offer letter. I expect no response though.
Millions of people in various sectors outside healthcare (by the way, since when is healthcare a "small sector"?) have had vaccines required as a condition of employment. , mostly people with plenty of risk like teachers, the military and some people working in the travel industry, but this is not always the case. I was required to get the flu shot (or an exemption) in my last job at an electrical engineering firm.
On a broader note, I think (coming from the US) workers should have stronger protections against being fired, but everyone I've personally talked to who does not believe your employer should be able to fire you for not getting a vaccine is also opposed to "state controlled employment" or almost anything else that exerts control over the employer-employee relationship. You can be fired for almost any reason in the US, being fired for not getting a vaccine does not seem any worse to me than being fired for any number of awful yet totally legal reasons.
You have the right to not get the vaccine, but you do not have the right to put other people at risk. Private companies can and will employ/fire anyone for any reason. That's one of our freedoms (in the US), the freedom of not having to work with as**oles that want to put others at risk. True freedom if you ask me.
Agreed. I was forced to get the vax due to my company's business dealings with the federal gov't. One of my developers, meanwhile, refused to get vaccinated, and so far the threat from my employer has just kind of stalled as different state and federal lawsuits have been going through the courts, while he walks on eggshells about his employment status and future career. My team works remote 99% of the time, btw. Engineers rarely deal with the customers either.
Regardless, I think he's been treated poorly by the company as we explicitly denied him the ability to join us at a few on-site meetings and outings. I'm not sure anyone can credibly assert anymore that his un-vaccinated status puts anyone other than himself at increased risk. At this point, it's a form of psychological warfare against him for refusing to conform, and that's WRONG.
I don't know if I would have gotten a vaccination without the threat of termination. I probably would have, but being forced has left me feeling anger towards both my employer and the gov't. And I've been with my employer for 8 years or so - I've enjoyed my time there.
Maybe think of the healthcare professionals who are being fired for refusing to get the vaccine because they believe it is medically improper for them to do so.
By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will.
In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less.
Telling someone you'll fire them if they don't get a shot isn't quite holding them down and jabbing them but it's not really a free personal choice either. Many people aren't in a position to just hop down the street into a new job.
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