Not really? I don't see how you bridge a group worried about a short term existential threat (the virus) and another alleging worry about a long term existential threat (the vaccine) when the two things are 0 sum.
By the time group 2 catches up (because years have gone by of the vaccine not causing widespread problems) the threat is gone. Meanwhile the animosity has not truly been diminished because the first group will feel the second is responsible for insert issue pertaining to millions of people willingly not getting vaccinated that caused them pain/suffering.
It's almost like many people are "worried" about "long term effects" as just a smoke-screen to run out the clock on the issue...
This was rambly and trying to pull my point somewhere else but let's address.
The two groups(Those opposed to vaccination due to potential long term effects and those in favor of vaccination immediately) cannot come to a meeting of the minds. Both sides see a potential existential threat that they're prioritizing that makes them diametrically opposed to the other point of view ("if you don't get the vaccine today you're actively spreading the plague" vs "if I get the shot, my blood will clot and I'll be sterile"). The truth is somewhere in the middle.
The whole issue with vaccination is that of threat perception. Everyone is building hypothetical models for the future based, mostly, on personal feeling and enough data points from experts to justify that feeling.
Again: There are a number of people who feel that the threat of the virus is less than the threat of the vaccine and are thus using whatever means presently available to them to justify to others why they believe that, just as there are people who feel that the virus is a greater threat than the cure.
You are painting people in big strokes. The people I know that fear long term effects wear mask religiously and follow safety procedures.
These are also the same people that won't get a flu vaccine, and resist getting the vaccines for all but the most deadly of diseases.
Another comment in this submission mentioned being bad at evaluating risk, perhaps that's what it is. They fixate on the unknowns of a vaccine, but they aren't able to compare it effectively to the risks of the virus.
There have been anti-vaccine communities since vaccines were created.
Honestly that part doesn't worry me. It's more about repeating the fascism of the 1930s that will drive people away from democracy right into the hands of authoritarians because the world turns into a post-truth uncertain mess.
I think assuming that it's out of "spite" is an example of not realizing how "your side" might be causing the division.
There are a lot of people who have already had covid and now have antibodies, who were also never in, and continue not to be in, a risky demographic. The risk for these people is very, very low already.
On top of that, the vaccine is not entirely without risk. There have been many reports of side effects, specifically heart issues in young males. There have been some deaths.
The counterargument might be, "okay, that may be technically true, but the risk is very, very low." And the people who do not want the vaccine, who are not in a risky demographic, might say in reply to you: exactly, that's the same thing we're saying about the virus.
Being skeptical of both is absolutely fair; however, ignoring the virus’ potential for long-term impact is absolutely disingenuous and this is what most vaccine deniers participate in.
What I am really concerned about is the social divide on the topic. I've seen close friends arguing fiercely about the topic of vaccination and not talking to each other after that.
There are very real people who have been harmed by side effects from the vaccine.
Whether the virus itself would've been more deadly is a question for another time, but if your loved ones were unlucky enough to get myocarditis from the vaccine, and you were silenced on social media, sometimes invisibly like you're being gaslit, and so were the doctors and researchers, it's easier to understand the strong emotional reactions to unnamed large entities colluding with other large consumer facing entities.
This also creates a tendency to migrate to communities that share your point of view, creating an echo chamber.
No, you're mis-understanding cause and effect. I've had vaccines before and have no fear of vaccines in general. This round in particular does concern me, but that concern arose due to the data and anecdotes that I already mentioned. Concern follows reason for concern. You're asserting it's the other way around, which is:
I'm not deriding the honest worry. Nobody can know with certainty anything about the future.
I'm worrying about the paralyzing effects of a meme that says that since it's technically possible for an adverse affect to happen at an arbitrary point in the future, we cannot consider an option to curb the effects of a known problem we have right now.
Often I'm accused of dismissing the possibility of adverse effects like if I knew with certainty that they can't happen. How could I? Nobody knows. That's not the point. The point is to make a guess and take balanced risks. We take risks all the time, about everything.
What's so special about vaccines that causes such widespread reaction? Is it because people feel forced to take them? Is it something about the way they work that triggers such a reaction in people that often (anecdotally) don't care about things like effects of second hand smoke?
There wasn't hate, at least not broadly. There was anger, sure, but not hate. At the time the focus was on making sure the vaccinations were taken seriously so as to protect those who couldn't do it, and plenty of people instead made ideological and self-centered decisions (their right to do so) rather than compassionate and ethical ones.
So fighting hate and lack of compassion with...hate and lack of compassion? This is fine with you? Is everyone who isn't vaccinated hateful and lacking compassion?
At this stage of the pandemic it's clear that the vaccines won't lead to herd immunity. I have personally seen a significant amount of vaccinated to vaccinated spread. For some folks the dangers of the vaccine may be higher than Covid, for example an 18 year old male who already had Covid.
I am personally pro vaccine. While I don't believe it will stop the spread of covid I think it will likely slow the spread. More importantly, I believe that it will provide extra protections to those who are vaccinated. Even though I don't agree with a lot of the arguments against vaccination, I don't think they should die, and I certainly won't celebrate it. It disgusts me that anyone would celebrate that. I think it's shameful.
I'm hoping that in a decade or so, people will stop using "vaccines never prevented transmission" as an argument since it has been said at least a billion of times since the beginning, VACCINES PREVENTED SERIOUS ILLNESS. Same thing about the imaginary widespread side-effects or the mask being useless.
Depressing.
Personally I'm more worried about the people that went full retard about covid alternative views and conspiracies, I've lost a few friends to that. Sometime I wonder if you will be able to integrate into society ever again.
Yes it’s possible to address these fears. To do so requires that the media stop lying to the public. There are clear signals that this vaccine is more dangerous than any other vaccine brought to market thus far. Instead of reporting on it and investigating further, it gets brushed under the rug (except for right wing media, which blows this signal out of proportion and jumps to conclusions pre-maturely). This is what generates the fear and distrust.
Personally I feel it’s very patronizing and condescending when I see that there is definitely something there to worry about or at least explore further, but then get told not to worry about it, shut up, and sit down because the fact checking experts said so.
I’m not scared of a vaccine. I am not sure what words I used to give you that impression.
I do see a lot of people fixating on vaccines as if it will make everything better. Vaccines will help, but better if there are other treatments as well. I think that if mortality rates and long-term scarring decreases, then people won’t feel like their survival depends upon other people’s cooperation.
Many pro vaccine people basically attack people who have had the infection and don’t want the vaccine, and call them anti science and anti vaccine, and judging by your tone you have similar views.
Yet from a science perspective they have a point, already having the disease matters.
Fingers crossed for you, but I think it's one of those things where the people who think that way are overwhelmingly unlikely to be interested in arguing about it on the Internet. I know I would have bounced right out of this comments section if I were even slightly less extreme in my pro-vaccine views.
By the time group 2 catches up (because years have gone by of the vaccine not causing widespread problems) the threat is gone. Meanwhile the animosity has not truly been diminished because the first group will feel the second is responsible for insert issue pertaining to millions of people willingly not getting vaccinated that caused them pain/suffering.
It's almost like many people are "worried" about "long term effects" as just a smoke-screen to run out the clock on the issue...
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