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Rishi Kumar brings up these points in a local article [1]. It's a good question:

"These bills will not require developers to invest in infrastructure improvement, rather only provide bare-minimum parking, avoiding costly entitlements. How will the current infrastructure — water, sewer, gas, roads — support the increased population? Who will make the necessary infrastructure investment?"

[1] https://padailypost.com/2021/03/19/guest-opinion-sb9-sb10-th...



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Easy: people require infrastructure and many land developers ignore it. More lanes on roads being a big one. In my former neck of the woods, a developer is putting in 1 or 2 thousands homes. They will connect right onto the two lane highway, miles from the freeway that already has too much traffic causing chaos in the rush hours. The developers will make a bundle if they don't go bankrupt first, and the community will be worse off.

This will have a few predictable results: The developers that pushed this through will make a fortune. The government taxes will increase immensely as they can now squeeze in more people. The city will generate much more pollution than it did. At what point do you say enough is enough. Exponential growth is unsustainable. The best communities I've ever seen were zoned for minimum size 1 acre single family lots.

Assuming the infrastructure is there to support it. Developers are more than happy to pass costs onto the government/taxpayer while keeping the profit, such as by building enormous neighborhoods with a single access road or in high risk flood zones. My brother's neighborhood is right now dealing with a developer who is building a 500-unit housing project whose only entrance and exist is the two lane road in front of his house. They'd have direct access to the highway except for the fact they're too cheap to bridge a five foot wide creek.

If there are truly no other options, then the developers are going to have to severely reduce the price of their real estate or choose not to build there. This is simply taking an implicit approach to things, which may or may not work.

If anything doing this is a way for cities to implicitly get citizens on board for investing more in public transit. All of the new apartment buildings in the hip parts of town don't have any parking for your cars, so you're forced onto public transportation more, which you might think stinks, so you now care more about voting for infrastructure improvement.


If developers build out suburban neighborhoods creating an integrated plan like this make sense, but what developers are building now is individual infill properties. nimbys that ask for infill developers to should infrastructure costs for a neighborhood is either not up to date on what is being build which by effect means that they living in the past or are intentially stalling development. Both has the same outcome, and with our dire housing situation this deserves a negative reaction if the person refuse to cooperate in creating workable solutions that add significant housing supply.

With regards to who should build infrastructure developer fees and property taxes are there to fund public construction of infrastructure; roads, schools, hospitals, etc. Why do you think requiring developers of individual buildings to build these is reasonable or even a workable solution?


I'll bite... I've protested apartments being built near my house-with-a-garden in the suburbs (Seattle area).

Not because I have a particular interest in my house price, or want to interfere with other people, but because the plans are doing absolutely sweet FA to improve the infrastructure to cope with the additions. In general, I'd be happy for the extra apartments if they came with extra infrastructure. We'd all benefit from it.

In one case, they started planning to add hundreds of apartment blocks specifically targetting young families, and yet the way it was being done there would be zero money going towards local schools to deal with the extra influx. Usual construction requires money towards schools, but there are loopholes, and the developer was using them, and the city seemed happy to let them.

Nor were there any plans to deal with the additional cars being added. Even with good transit links to Seattle, the roads leading to the proposed site.

Nor were there plans to deal with increased sanitation or power demand on an already flaky power grid.

The list literally goes on and on. What we keep seeing around here is developers interested in doing the absolute bare minimum to build apartment blocks, and a city content to just let them overload an stretched resources.


I wonder if they plan to also build all the infrastructure required to support all these new people living in these new housing. Like expanded electric service, water & sewer, trash pickup, transportation, schools, another fire station. Or are taxpayers going to have to pick up that bill? Build build build is great, we need more housing, but you can't do it without also planning for all the supporting infrastructure.

Why are developers expected to solve these problems? With more people living there, there will be a larger tax base to support services and infrastructure in the area. The city is the entity that should be building bridges and the residents (present and future) are the ones who should be funding it. By all means, the developers should pay market value for the land, but expecting them to fund bridge maintenance nearby just doesn't make sense to me.

Without the advantages of upfront planning and design, they'll pay more for crappier services. If the area grows significantly, then they'll have to pay even more on top for upgrades.

But hey, at least it'll be idyllic. Good luck keeping your kids around after they graduate high school.


And what is preventing those developers from building more supply? I've seen plenty of construction going on in the city.

I have seen hundreds of new apartment and condo units built within three miles of my LA neighborhood in the last four years. Dozens within a half mile.

What it has meant so far is additional traffic congestion, increased commute times for everyone, more demand for government education and emergency services and more air pollution.

I'm not quite seeing how the government can be taking enough money in to make up for the reduction in service levels and overburdened infrastructure. Based on the broken roads and sidewalks around my neighborhood and LA generally, it doesn't seem like it is doing that.


He's not talking about buying the homes and renovating like an investor trying to make money. He's talking about ways to make the neighborhoods more livable (and therefore more valuable) by having the cities invest in the infrastructure.

Chicken and egg. If you built the infrastructure beforehand, land prices would skyrocket because of increased amenity and then you'd have both excessive costs building in more density along with many people who paid top dollar for a "nice" suburb now losing out badly from planning decisions.

Long term planning that is set in stone would solve this problem, but doubt it's politically feasible in many places.


Allowing infill development of existing parking lots to create mixed use neighborhoods is in reality very cheap for cities to do. All it costs is rezoning: if they then increase taxes on the now very-desirable-to-build land, it’ll be a huge net win, with cheaper utilities and transport infra to maintain relative to the tax base. Sewers cost roughly the same per mile regardless of if you’re serving 1,000 or 10,000 people.

This becomes really obvious when you look at where cities like Kansas City receive the most taxes vs where they spend the most: suburbs cost Kansas City huge amounts of money that the inner walkable city neighborhoods subsidize, despite the per-capita tax returns being lower in the more dense neighborhoods.


He's not referring investment in the sense of individuals coming in, buying houses, improving them and flipping them.

> We're talking about things like putting in street trees, painting crosswalks, patching sidewalks, and making changes to zoning regulations to provide more flexibility for neighborhood businesses, accessory apartments and parking.

His argument is that small civic investments in infrastructure in poor neighborhoods have a good chance of increasing the average property value of the whole neighborhood and thus increasing the tax base. Not all 'investments' will work, but they are relatively inexpensive so you can experiment and replicate the ones that do work across the whole city.


I don't know why you're getting down voted either. will the down voters please address the following concerns?

1. Considering that some of the apartment dwellers will become homeowners and their place will be taken by new apartment dwellers, how will the overcrowded schools support the influx?

2. Considering people will take public transit to go to work, they still would use cars to move around locally in the area on evenings and weekends. How will the current streets support the greater density of cars? e.g. Central Expressway used to be an expressway now it is a parking lot.

3. Overburdened police and firemen will be exposed to further strain.

4. Parking is a nightmare not just on residential streets but even at local establishments. Space needed for parking is used to build more housing.

Unless you live here and face these issues it's easy to downvote rather than come up with solutions that are at pace with the housing construction boom.

If I paid over a million dollars to buy a house in a school district that has a good score what would you suggest I do when suddenly the student to teacher ratio is so skewed that the education of my children suffers?


Uh, yeah, they have to cost-share the burden of upsetting the current infrastructure. Say you owned a piece of property adjacent to where all this new building is going on. Is it your responsibility to chip in? Is it your responsibility to shoulder the cost burden of what is effectively a zoning-related issue? I mean, god, when do you really own the property you're standing on? You didn't even ask for all this development, but now you've got to pay for expanding the infrastructure because a new developer wants to reap financial reward by developing up his land?

Yeah. It's not a property freedom issue, it's a cost ecosystem issue. As time goes on and life changes, owning property is going to have fluid costs, and tax assessments on people who come in to develop land is one way to defray those costs from disproportionately hitting people who have lived in an area for a long time. Frankly, those people would never really plan for that kind of thing to happen, so you're avoiding a lot of nasty repercussions by taxing the person upsetting the ecosystem, rather than the members of the ecosystem itself.


I mean, I don't think the YIMBY movement always speaks with a single voice, but I do think there's an understanding that infrastructure will have to keep up.

The thing is that in order to expand infrastructure, you need

- public pressure and demonstrated need for that expansion

- tax dollars to fund the expansion

and the quickest way to get both of those is... to build more homes and put people in them. I don't think there's any magic involved, just time and necessity.


Agreed. For example, near Charlotte. My dad lives there and they are building like crazy due to hyper grow. Problem is, the roads, sewer and water infrastructure can't handle all the new people. 20 years ago what was a 10 minute trip to the store can now be over an hour, due to massive traffic jams.

The developers are (probably) paying off politicians to get permits, but there is no money (due to low taxes) for the necessary projects.

EDIT: roads are being built, but slowly.

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