> actual-whey-protein non-animal ice cream is now available down the street from me. Is it "vat milk"? Well, no; it's a novel solution that marries the actual protein in cow milk, with fats from vegetable sources.
In what sense is cow milk derived whey protein non-animal?
> Our animal-free milk from flora is the first of its kind, using whey protein made by microflora, not cows, to make dairy that’s identical to traditional milk. Yes, we said identical.
>The microflora then takes the place of the cow in creating a protein that can be used to make vegan versions of dairy-based food such as milk, cheese, and ice cream.
Not sure how much the protein matters, seems to me that a good replacement for butterfat would be a much bigger breakthrough. Butterfat is crucial to the texture and flavor of ice cream.
It isn't cow milk, but other than that I'm not really sure what you're saying. Milk is what you get when milking an animal. It's a pretty broad term. However I do doubt that this would be as nutritious to humans as milk from cows or other mammals.
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100+g+cow%27s+milk says it's primarily carbohydrates (7g/100g), protein (4g), and a bit of fat (2g) suspended in water. Also, the website is somewhat confusing, but poking around a bit it looks like they are targeting the production of protein (casein specifically), not fat. You may be attacking a strawman here...
> You need at least a magnitude higher funding unless you plan to outsource everything to India.
... as well as a large fraction of the world's population, for no discernible reason.
I didn't see it discussed in the article, but I'm very excited about possibilities like Perfect Day [1]. They provide "animal-free" milk. Unlike other alternatives, this product contains actual milk proteins derived from microflora. So it has more of the texture, taste, and nutritional content you expect from milk, but animals are not involved in the manufacturing.
I'd love to see how animal-free protein products stack up against these other alternatives. I think including it in the comparison may do something to assuage the "but it's not milk, so..." objections.
Almost never protein though. You want good protein for a healthy diet. Of course you can get it through other ingredients, but most of the time, today anyway, you do lose something when just replacing cheese with vegan cheese, unfortunately.
> There is no magic ingredient in cow (dog, giraffe, lion, bat, dolphin) milk that we couldn't get from plants instead.
> its not equivalent nor replacement in ie nutrition nor taste
Speak for yourself, it might not have the same nutritional value (but also not the same amount of hormones and/or antibiotics), but there are a few oat based milks (e.g. Alpro This Is Not Milk) that have almost the same mouth feel as cow milk (personally, I find that too fatty and prefer the non-fatty tasting oat milk).
> Its easy to buy bio milk which comes from free grazing cows
Uh huh, and how many people are doing that, especially close to the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder? There are plenty of plant based milk with a hefty trend markup, but least here in Germany the discount supermarkets have plenty of cheap plant based milk that is the same price as cow milk, and you don't have to squeeze milk from an animal for that.
> I'm really interested in foods that could be created that don't mimic existing foods derived from animals or plants. You could imagine a nutritionist defining requirements - combinations of proteins, fats and carbohydrates, various micronutrients.
This is what milk is, really. It's specifically designed to be the exact balance of nutrients needed -- by an infant. (And in this case, an infant cow.) It'll be hard to beat what we already have.
> But it still has cholesterol, and hormones and other bad stuff, and what are the benefits to consuming dairy over all the alternatives there is that has none of the bad stuff?
As you said yourself: Not all alternatives are better. Some of them are even worse. You'll have to take a closer look to what's inside, that's why I don't like the generalization "Dairy is bad!".
> We lighlty compare real milk with plant based milk without being honest about the completely different properties of the two
For sure, there are many differences between plant based and dairy milk. Besides the protein levels, for example, a large percentage of humans - between 10 and 90 percent depending on genetic background - are lactose intolerant and can't digest animal milk. Plant based milks don't have this problem - very few people can't digest oats, and for those few who do have a problem with oats, they can switch to almond, rice, soy, cashew or even peanut milk. Sure, these have less protein than dairy milk, but they more than make up for it in diversity and benefit to the environment, and it's easy to adapt your diet to get the protein elsewhere.
So when being more honest in our comparisons - a good thing, for sure - we must compare all of these things and not just the amount of protein. For me personally, being one of those lactose intolerant people, plant based milks definitely win. For another person they may not.
> I do doubt that this would be as nutritious to humans as milk from cows or other mammals.
From the article:
containing nearly four times the protein of cow’s milk
And we needn't get into how "coconut milk", "almond milk", etc. are somehow inappropriate uses of "milk" despite their entry into the lexicon millennia ago.
not sure what point you are trying to make here. Casein is a protein. Sources in our diet come exclusively from mammalian milk. A protein from animal sources = animal protein does it not?
Meh, I think people don't realize how untrue things actually are.
As pointed out in the article, Vanilla Ice Cream doesn't always have Vanilla. Or at the heart of the case, a Mint Fudge cookie may taste like Mint without containing Mint.
IIRC, FDA's definition of Milk is literally from a Cow. As in, Goat's Milk, Oat's Milk, etc are not Milk.
> I've never seen a carton of oat milk and thought it contained dairy
I have no issues with "<plant> milk" products and labeling them like that, but people do get confused about their nutritional profiles, thinking they're substitutes for milk. They're not, and they're chemically different enough that they're not good substitutes for cooking. About the only thing they're good substitutes for is liquid milk, though I hear oat milk foams up well for a cappuccino.
I can't access the article, but I'll mention something else. One year ago I met a guy who was working with trying to make bacteria produce caseine and whey. He had some experience making cheese and said that the proteins found in milk are really the secret behind making cheese taste and feel like cheese.
The goal was to just have bacteria, feed them molasses (which is cheap and easy to come by) and get raw milk protein as a result. Much more efficient than actually going through a cow.
"I would love to say that products in stores is only 2 years away, but let's say 5 to be on the safe side".
Milk is substitutable. You loose the taste for it in a year or so. Cheese? I have tried many vegan cheeses. They all suck.
In what sense is cow milk derived whey protein non-animal?
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