If we assume doers as being goal-oriented, then I can see it being easier to educate them in ways to help them get closer to their goals faster and more efficiently. On the other hand, someone who doesn't really care about the goal, isn't going to care as much about getting there sooner or in a better fashion.
That said, I've found myself in both camps on various projects. When you're working on something where the end result is really exciting, it makes a huge difference on you and your team. It's exhilarating. On the flip side, projects were you don't care about the end result, are really brutal to work through. You just work for the paycheck. Any sort of educating about how to do things better feels particularly pointless.
Hmm, then I must have come off wrong. That being my final goal does not mean that I care less for what I do. I try to find meaning in my every day work by optimizing for the value I create for the end user and can not be less motivated than when I only work on something because "I have to" or it "being the only way".
It is healthy to be self aware about outcomes vs just indulging, but I am not longer so worried.
On my best projects, I've done the first 90% so that a great many other can collective do the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th 90%s :). Without being "goal oriented" you can feel good about unlocking that part that would be too annoying for others, and they in turn can do the finishing work that wouldn't be fun for you.
Don't feel like you're not doing important work just because others are slotting in the keystones.
I noticed those comments as well and would make a slightly different point, which is that part of the reason it is good advice is that having a practical goal can be both motivating and directly helpful in the learning process. Motivating because you are more likely to finish a project that you want to use the result of. Directly helpful because it's easier to learn something when you see its utility at work.
Doing a good job with care, investing myself in the work. It doesn't matter if no one sees it or appreciates it (though that's nice), it's important that it's done well, with economy of design and good judgement for where to invest some time in the code, and where to flesh out with less finishing.
Higher order goals are all well and good, but usually the best way to achieve those is to make as much money as possible and then direct the money towards the goals, rather than to change what you do and work on the higher order goals directly. While working directly towards higher order goals might feel more satisfying and meaningful, it's unlikely to be the most effective way of making a difference if you've got good skills as an engineer.
My personal higher order goals aren't much more than to live the good life, but being sure to live it - be in the moment, rather than living for some tomorrow.
Another take on what the author proposing is to simply not care about the output of the task, but focus on how that person approaches the problem (even if they don't manage to complete the task at all).
This makes sense. But I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think goal-motivation is different from goal-attachment. Being attached to "I will do my best to make x happen" rather than x itself focuses on actions and growth (within realm of control) than consequences (often outside of realm of control). Like a product failing because people are just not into it.
I think we can avoid those mistakes but what I see here is people telling other people what to do in a way that sounds unconditional: "x is better regardless of your situation." Some techs are better for x, other for y. Merging someone else's experience tree into your own is good, but it must be contextualized by their perspective--they're working on mobile embedded soft vs. you are on web, maybe, for instance. Or games vs. databasey things. Or their job is a performance engr but you are UI...
In that case it's still not a matter or judging Y as a waste of time or low value activity, it's just that committing to doing things to get X done a better choice
Spending your effort trying to advance human knowledge is, after all, a sure way to lose out and get fired. If you don't spend all your time chasing the measured goals, you won't match up to the people who do.
This idea seems more like how to stick to doing something you don't like, rather than how to stick to a goal. The seem similar but the latter implies you have a choice in how to accomplish it.
If you assume that a goal is a long term accomplishment and the strategies you use are short term, then something like this will allow you to stick to a strategy. However, done to excess would imply doing things you hate all the time, against the peril of doing things you hate more, which will make your life miserable.
This line of thinking reminds me of most school systems, which uses somewhat the same strategy, ie. do this simple task, now, or in the immediate future, to some exact specification, and if you don't do it properly you'll get a bad grade.
I find it much more helpful to tread lightly when considering doing things you don't like in order to accomplish a goal. If you can find a way where you are enjoying yourself and working towards a goal at the same time, it is much better even if it seems likely to cause you to take longer at doing it.
For instance, I often switch projects during the day, rather than work on only a single project, getting bored with it, but pushing on and hoping that I'll get through it quick and be able to go onto the next one. By switching it up, not only am I happier and actually excited to work on the stuff I do, but there is a synergistic effect, since the concepts of one of the projects often applies to the others as well.
Interesting how it first tells you that Forever Project is not about setting goals, while truly pursuing the goal of learning. This becomes especially clear in the end, when polishing is criticized. If there is a goal (learning new things), doesn't it strip away the benefits of Forever Project thinking?
Well this is like your opinion, if your goal is to learn, I find that looking for productivity is great for you. You learn more and feel more connected.
Then if your goal in life is to get rich or make history I don't know... But it's not everyone's goal.
I think this is a good illustration of the value of process-based goals over outcome-based goals. The things under control, you completed. Those not under your control you did not. Sounds pretty cool to me.
The solution is to push back on whoever assigned the task to you and what the value of it is, what the end result should look like, etc. If it's worthless effort and busy work, make them understand it. If it's just the boring drudge that makes the better things happen, at least you can be engaged in the end goal.
I love the phrase, "Better done than done better." It's suitable for many situations in life.
In the last few months, I've been running my life off a weekly task list that includes both my personal and business tasks and objectives. I build the task list each Monday morning based on goals I set out at the beginning of the year (such as improve my Chinese, for a personal goal, or get software license signed, as a business goal.) This has definitely pushed me to complete many tasks that could have easily just not gotten done.
That said, I think he paints a binary picture of people who are either go-getters who act now to achieve their goals vs. dreamers who never get anything done. In my experience, these are two ends of a spectrum, where it's important to move back-and-forth between each end to achieve goals and objectives.
By the way, he has a wonderful point about "The Go-Getter loves what he does (and delegates the rest)" I am way too guilty of doing it all myself, when I should instead spend a little bit of money to have other people do things for me that are not key to what I want.
That said, I've found myself in both camps on various projects. When you're working on something where the end result is really exciting, it makes a huge difference on you and your team. It's exhilarating. On the flip side, projects were you don't care about the end result, are really brutal to work through. You just work for the paycheck. Any sort of educating about how to do things better feels particularly pointless.
reply