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Other countries have unions that will handle those cases for the laid-off employee. Doesn't work perfectly but it's another idea worth considering.


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Thats a good idea. Not sure its broadly applicable in events of large layoffs.

A layoff is not necessarily temporary. You’d need a system that compels the company to hire them back at their previous wages / benefits, or not allow any kind of “terminated” status but just transfer payroll (at a reduced rate) to the government.

Firing + collecting unemployment is not the same as requiring fiscal responsibility, not even in terms of superficial intentions.


What about layoffs?

All depends on what would happen to the laid off persons.

If this were a country with good social support and they would get some sort of severance, it would be fair.

If they would not be compensated for the caused harm, it would be unethical, since one's action would be a key contributor to that harm.


Can you expand on your last point? AFAIK, whe you're part of layoffs you get unemployment benefits.

Sounds like at least some of those laid off employees ought to be talking to a judge about getting emergency orders?

This is why we need unions.

Layoffs are unfortunately, sometimes, necessary. But when they happen, it's important that the right people are chosen, for the right reasons (whether that's performance based, voluntary, protecting certain groups, ensuring fairness, etc). That requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria, and who are able to negotiate for better outcomes for those impacted.


No, this is a very bad idea. Because layoffs are involuntary, they crater morale. If you keep those people at work, it is not like they will all show up and pretend like nothing happened.

True, but what I noticed is that in many of these countries you can't just start layoffs whenever.

Frequently you need to have consultations with unions or staff representatives, present an actual business plan for the layoffs and why people can't be reconverted.

That hits the breaks on any impulsive layoffs and it adds another buffer of a bunch of months.


Certainly! I know a guy who got laid off recently, and he has a child with a sensitive medical condition who was relying on the guy's no-longer-existing health insurance for essential medical treatment.

Should the managers who organized the layoff go to prison?


Indeed. HR handles layoffs. Well, unless you like lawsuits.

This will reduce the chance of the laidoff employees of finding new jobs...

What if someone is a remote worker? You want them to fly across the country just so they can get laid off in person? Or do you expect their boss to fly across the country and visit them at their home to deliver the news? Either one sounds ridiculous at best, grossly insulting at worst.

The way to 'humanely' lay people off is simple: give them a generous severance package. 6 months of pay/benefits should be plenty to find a new job without any disruption. The last time I was laid off as a mass lay-off (my group was laid off because the company decided to quit the product sector we were in), I got 4 months' severance and had a new (higher paying) job within a month, so I wasn't mad at all.


That might actually be doing the employee a favor.

In many jurisdictions you can start collecting unemployment a lot faster if you're laid off rather than quitting.


Also, IIRC, when actual layoffs happen, in Germany they actually need to look at tenure and family status of fired people (e.g. fire people without families first).

One of the effects of layoffs/firings, if not always the primary intention, is to put the employees in a state of insecurity and anxiety -- to make you work harder, longer, etc.

Best solution I can think of is to try to form a union, so you have some ability to fight back if and when someone lays you off, fires you, harasses you, etc.

That said, both the process of forming a union, and then trying to exist post-union, can get you fired or effectively fired. Companies, e.g. Tesla, will just close down entire factories to escape labor laws, etc. Of course, in IT, it's much easier to outsource jobs. Other companies will just shut down to kill a union, and sometimes re-form once the union is dead. This is all in America, which is a very anti-labor country.


Most countries take your whole comp as your anual salary when being laid off.

> during layoffs, unions may force the company to lay off people based on seniority instead of competency.

Interesting. That's the default by law here in Sweden, but can be negotiated with the union -- usually in exchange for better severance compensation.


Layoffs are sometimes used to avoid saddling employees with the stigma of getting fired. Laying them off also means the employee can get unemployment compensation.
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