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> But bitcoin collapses not just every 30-100 years, it collapses every 0.5-5 years.

When someone says that a fiat currency collapsed, it means the value went to zero forever. Bitcoin hit a new all-time high price in USD just recently. Not the same usage of the word collapse.



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> I am not going to claim that fiat currency will be so enduring

I don't get what you're trying to say. Bitcoin is a fiat currency.


> If everybody converted their bitcoins to fiat currency now the exchange rate would collapse quickly.

You can say the same about literally any asset or currency. If everyone sells, and no one is buying, then yes, the value drops to 0.


> Bitcoin has already failed as a currency. It is subject to incredible moodiness and instability, which are the characteristics of a very poor currency indeed

Bitcoin has to climb up to a stable value, once.

The idea is that it will be stable once it did.


>It is also deflating, i.e. one Bitcoin today is worth more than one Bitcoin yesterday.

But that's explicitly false, especially today (what with bitcoin being down 14% over the last 24 hours). And there was a period of bitcoin's history of about 3 years where the value of one bitcoin was dropping day after day. Does that mean bitcoin was inflationary during that time?

I just can't see that as being a useful definition.


>The outrageous swings of bitcoin hour by hour have the same issue.

Bitcoin loses, at worst, maybe 50% of its value over the course of a few weeks. The Zimbabwe dollar lost 99.99% of its value over the course of a few weeks.

Of course, on larger time scales, the volatility of Bitcoin has been in a distinctly upward direction. So yeah, I guess Bitcoin has kind of the opposite problem of the Zimbabwe Dollar (if you can call it a problem).

And then, of course, Bitcoin will probably stabilize over time. New currencies are not historically stable.


>Bitcoin is not a currency, it is a technology, a service and now a commodity for speculators which is crashing right now.

Agree on that it is not a currency (the word "currency" doesn't even appear on the Bitcoin client's website). However, please explain why you say it is "crashing"? 3 months ago the price was $130 on average. It's around $500 today. How is that a crash?


> Bitcoin right now is an incredibly bad long term value store.

It's a deflationary currency. Sure there may be rises and falls, but in the long term, the trend will only be in one direction.


> > as a store of value

Bitcoin failed as a store of value, it's up some 20,000% since 2010 and basically infinty since the day of its first trade (back when the first bitcoin was traded for some trivial amount of electricity)

Store of value is a very specific term


> But bitcoin is more of an asset than a currency, so speaking of it in terms of inflation / deflation leads to oddities, like this.

Assets inflate and deflate. It’s not an oddity.


> With my theory of value, Bitcoin has to collapse.

There's absolutely no risk to a vague claim like that. It's unfalsifiable. Either we witness Bitcoin collapse, in which case you made an amazing prediction, or we don't witness Bitcoin collapse, and on your deathbed you can be proud that you haven't been proven wrong yet.

To make a meaningful prediction, name a time (preferably within most of our expected lifetimes) and a market price. Of course, if you could do that with any confidence, you should also trade with that same confidence.


> So its not a good currency, but its a good store of value.

How is it a good store of value?

> No Bitcoin holder is gauging the value in segments of 1 year.

If it cannot hold its value for one year, I have little faith that it can hold its value for more than one year.


> barely functioning CS experiment

Zero downtime since 2013. Visa has ten hour outages across entire continents.

> Bitcoin solves no actual problems

It's been moving billions of USD daily without fail for years. That's a non-trivial amount to anywhere on Earth. Try transferring money from say former Soviet bloc countries to Africa.

> The consensus among economists is that a deflationary currency is a terrible idea.

Bitcoin is inflationary until 2140 and then stops inflating. It's not a deflationary currency. Perhaps you meant to word this differently?


> I am fully cognizant of the perils of making bearish predictions about new technology.

> But, to quote another well-worn and wholly unreliable aphorism, this time it's different. It really is.

and

>... because the only other alternative is chaos, and probably the end of the whole Bitcoin experiment.

I'm very much a Bitcoin skeptic, but, I'm not sure this time is different, or that Bitcoin will die.

For the last 8 years, various sources have been predicting a Bitcoin collapse over and over again. It's still here, alive and well and quite high.

3 years ago: Business Week - Bitcoin Is Collapsing => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8893616

4 years ago: latimes.com - Bitcoin virtual currency is on verge of collapse => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7306035

6 years ago: theatlantic.com - The Bitcoin Economy Is Collapsing with No Sign of Recovery (2011) => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8431092

6 years ago: Bitcoin & Gresham's Law - the economic inevitability of Collapse => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3623549


> Note that Bitcoin has lost more value than the US dollar.

How does that make any sense? It's up more than 26,000% against the US for ten years now. What time frame are you working with?


> Bitcoin is only deflationary if the supply of everything else grows forever.

Right, Bitcoin wouldn't be deflationary if the economy simply stopped growing.


> Bitcoin has nothing in and of itself.

I don't understand what is "in and of itself" in an ordinary currency of an ordinary, small country.

> INTERNAL economical crisis is what causes the collapse of currency

Which is why it is very unlikely to happen with bitcoin.

> But just because the rest of the world doesn't recognize it, doesn't mean it is worthless, it simply converts.

Can't you say exactly the same about bitcoin?


> And this periodically actually happens to real government-backed currencies in the world, especially during times of hyperinflation

Right, but that happens sometimes, and never with proper governance. (but what is "proper governance" you ask? It's a tautology that says that governments that never allow hyperinflation never suffer from hyperinflation)

ALL asset bubbles collapse. The magnitude of the collapse is determined by the non-monetary value of the asset. (e.g. tulip bulbs collapse harder than real-estate). Because the non-monetary value of Bitcoin is negative (you need to burn electricity to use Bitcoin), this implies the eventual collapse of Bitcoin will be absolute.


> Bitcoin is a store of value

That's what's said now because it failed as a currency.


> The next day, bitcoin increases its value 25%.

Yeah because the Dollar was perfectly stable when it was five years old and accessible to only a select percentage of the population (how many people are really able to use a wallet with the cryptic addresses? Not my parents at least).

Besides, when many people buy their house in Bitcoin the market cap would be much higher and the price would not fluctuate 25% in one day. Not without a fatal flaw in the algorithm or World War III anyway.

The only reason Bitcoin is unstable is because it's not used by that many. That's not a flaw from Bitcoin, that's the network effect. Like Facebook versus Google+, though that's a bad comparison because G+ has no game-changing advantages, at least none that Facebook couldn't replicate.

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