Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

There was a very good thread on HN about this not long ago(1). Google search is getting worse because it is letting companies like Pinterest game it.

Instead of fixing the spam they are instead encouraging companies to spend more and more time on SEO and coming up with their own shenanigans like better ranking for using AMP (defunct now).

People who generally make great content (think a researcher or a great software maker) can't compete with billion dollar companies like Canva, Shutterstock and Pinterest who spend millions of dollars on SEO and have dedicated SEO employees who spend all day sending outreach emails and doing experiments. Henceforth the good content never even sees the light of the day; drowned by all this "SEO" optimized content.

FWIW i still believe it's the job of the search engine to find great relevant content and show it to the user instead of the other way round. Though I know it's much easier said than done.

(1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25538586



sort by: page size:

Google has become unusable in many circumstances, and it rewards spam. It claims it doesn't, but it does, a lot of SEO strategies now revolve around spamming the search engine with articles, pages, etc. Not for useful content, but for linkbacks, internal linking, etc. It is especially bad for geo-specific SEO strategies, where you're trying to have different page sets for different regions. Basically, how it was when Google first started and was easily gamed. Now people are spinning up 100s of pages and articles using AI and just spamming it. It has gotten bad, but the worst part is that you have to do it now in order to compete for keywords.

It's not entirely Google's fault. SEO-oriented content is ruining the web. It's a battle I'm not sure search engines can win.

Keyword indexing and PageRank worked for a while because the underlying data wasn't written trying to game them. Then came spam linking and keyword stuffing and more. I'm surprised search engines are still useful in spite of that.


To me it seems the problem with Google goes far deeper than struggling with bad SEO.

- For years it has been next to impossible to get a result that is faithful to the search you actually typed in. This is not dependent on SEO spammers at all, only on Googles unwillingness to accept that not every user is equal and some of us mean exactly what we write, especially when we take the time to enclose our queries in double quotes and set the "verbatim" option.

- Ad targeting has been so bad it has been ridiculous. Yes, on average it works but around the edges it is somewhere between tragic and hilarious. For ten years after I met my wife the most relevant ads Google could think of was dating sites. Not toys, not family holidays, not tech conferences, not magazine subscriptions, not offers from local shops, but scammy dating sites that was so ridiculous that I cannot imagine how most people would fall for them. (For a while I wondered if this was all a fluke but now I have confirmed it happens to others in my situation as well.)

- Also in other areas it is becoming ridiculous. For example: what is the idea behind aggressively showing me captcas while I'm logged in with two different google controlled accounts, one gmail and one gsuite, both paid?


You have no way of knowing whether I'm gaming Google or not.

But anyway, what I'm referring to is the amount of spammy content that comes up when you do a Google search, while truly useful content doesn't do so well. Honestly, have you ever read a good article on About.com? Yet they rank very well on Google.

Search could still be much better. While Google is great, they don't understand people well enough to make the necessary improvements.


Yup, Google keeps getting worse everyday. Some queries return 90% crap/spam/AI blogs and 10% useful information. Bing is not an option, DuckDuckGo it's a little better, but still... a lot of garbage. I've been noticing this since 2023, but now it's completly weird. How did spammers won the SEO battle?

I’m not sure it’s Google’s fault at this point. Maybe it’s just that every site thinks they need to be SEO spam in order to be noticed. And so the internet has become a cesspool of stories about how this is the same recipe passed down in your family since Julius Caesar.

There have been a ton of articles about how Google sucks lately. Well, maybe Google has gotten worse, but maybe the internet has just gotten worse.

If I search for “best gaming laptop” or “taco recipe” the results are pretty much uniformly spammy across Google, Bing, and Neeva, the latter being a paid search engine. All of them are just farms for ads, popups, and paid links sandwiched between AI generated copy.

Is that the search engine’s fault? Is there some oasis of quality results I don’t know about? I would like to know.


Imo the problem mainly lies in Google's square. All SEO tools exist for the reason of it being possible to game search results in the first place. It's inevitable that companies will offer tools and services to do so when there's such a huge market for it.

Google has gotten better at discerning between crap and quality content, but they still have a long way to go, and I'm unsure if it can be fully fixed the way search engines currently work.


I think what kills google searches is seo bullshit. Even the worst sites with seo are now on the first page. In the past, SEO really forced quality, but now it's enough to make your website compatible with bullshit like amp.

There are two possibilities:

1. Search engines are getting less good at ranking bad content below good content

2. The good content is getting worse. So bad, in fact, that it looks like bad content.

It may be a little of both. I lean towards 2, though. It’s kind of a race to the bottom in terms of jamming your page with ads, buzz words, and popups these days.

Generally speaking, the web doesn’t have great results for e.g. product recommendations. Part of it is because of how centralized the internet has become.

The best you can do a lot of the time is to just serve mostly Reddit results. But even that can be gamed.


This pretty much sums it up. The amount of crap and plagiarized content in most searches is what is killing most search results.

Google makes money regardless of the quality or 'originality' of the content your search comes up with so they currently have no motive to change things.


There's a case to be made that detecting and penalizing SEO is making results worse, if, as you suppose, SEO for a sufficiently good search engine is equivalent to producing good content.

Obviously Google doesn't think their search is good enough, and I would agree -- piling more "inputs" and arbitrary branches into a ranking algorithm, however, is no solution. This will only devolve into an endless game of cat and mouse until a new search engine comes along and does to Google what Google did to Yahoo.


I think that this is a larger factor as to why Google search sucks these days than SEO is.

I agree that SEO has made it harder and harder to find good content on the internet.

I don't agree with Google being blamed for this. They're trying desperately to fix the problem. Maybe they're not as effective as you'd hope, but why would a "multipolar" search world be better? Wouldn't all search engines be plagued with people trying to game the system?


Search is going downhill at least in part because they're dealing with an entire industry that's adversarial to them. SEO companies are spending billions of dollars and countless man-hours with the explicit goal of making search worse. The fact that they've gotten even better tools in the form of GenAI for manipulating search hasn't helped.

I mostly agree with you about Google search results, however I think the decreasing quality is more due to political influence and corruption, rather than SEO-games.

I get a lot more seo spam than I used to, but the results are still quite good. I think we should give google some credit for that at least.

Like, a lot more seo spam though.


This makes me really wonder about the saturation of knowledge in SEO, the number of companies in the SEO, and the maturity of the Google "algorithm".

As I understand it, the history of SEO/Google is as such (simplistic view):

1. Google creates a search algorithm (that is not 100% known to externals) that tries to match your search term with valid, true content.

2. SEO strategists -- whether by legitimate or deceptive means -- tailor content, HTML, etc to match this algorithm.

3. Google has constantly improved and tailored this algorithm to prevent spammy type sites.

4. There is a growing consensus that spam is taking over Google search.

This all leads me to believe that either Google is losing it's touch on it's search algorithm or it's simply matured to a point that it can no longer out-game the gamers (SEOs).


Yeah, that's one of the main issues. And it's about to get worse with the newer generative models.

I don't think Google ever had a great algorithm and switched to something worse. It's just the SEO actors putting crap out there now, and clickbait. The thing it became worse at was recommending small sites/blogs over big publications/sites.

Back in the day, all they had to face was people trying to spread viruses but those results were super obvious. And they weren't even flagged back then, just users were smart enough to instantly spot it from the result.


I agree with everything you said, but there’s one additional nuance: what may be best for the user, may not be what’s best for the business.

I’d say that if there’s a general trend over the past decade, it’s that search results haven’t necessarily lead to a better user experience, but Google did a lot of fighting with spam sites, in addition to more ads / integrations with their wider ecosystem.

All this makes for a lot of quality hits in the whole experience, and I totally understand the frustration of people who depend upon their rankings. I don’t think there’s a solution, though, as Google needs to keep evolving, especially to fight SEO spam that tries to game their algorithms.

next

Legal | privacy