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Some owners of private companies don't see the goal of the company as profit maximization - eg SpaceX.

With a public company there's always going to be a shareholder to sue you for not maximizing profit.

https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010/09/articles/series/s...



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> there is no "legal duty to maximize profits".

For publicly traded companies, there is: https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010/09/articles/series/s...


You probably didn't read the essay I linked? It shows through numerous court decisions that maximizing shareholder profit is the legal duty.

Yes, there's a lot of leeway for HOW to maximize the profit and on what timescale, but the purpose still has to be profit maximization. For example a court ruled against Henry Ford rising workers' wages for the benefit of the workers and the society.

I don't really understand why people struggle with this IMHO plain fact that for-profit is for-profit. Maybe it challenges the idea that "free market" will benefit us all?

https://www.wakeforestlawreview.com/2012/04/our-continuing-s...


But once a company is public, then maximising profit is really the only goal. If you don't do that as a CEO, aren't you being negligent (doing something illegal).

My only point that I am making is that this idea of "corporations have to maximize profits" is false.

Shareholders own the business. And they can do what they want with it.

It is a total lie to say that they "have" to maximize profits.


First of all, if I am the sole owner of a business, and I want to run it into the ground, that is my prerogative, and it is completely legal. Secondly, the 'maximize shareholder value' idea is a management principle, and it is not, and never has been, a legally binding requirement for corporations, public or not. Public corporations can be sued for purposefully or negligently destroying shareholder value, but not for failing to 'maximize shareholder value', which would be an absurd and difficult thing to argue in court anyways.

> publicly traded companies are required by law to maximize their profits

Is that really true, though?

"[...] there is no legal requirement for for-profit companies to maximize returns to shareholders. When a company is for sale, its directors are required to do all they can to maximize its value. At any other time, corporate law simply dictates that directors are supposed to help the company prosper and do nothing to benefit themselves at the company’s expense. But no law requires corporations to maximize returns to shareholders."[0]

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-the-...


A lot of people tend to not accept this plain fact that for-profits must maximize profit. It's literally illegal not to do so.

https://www.wakeforestlawreview.com/2012/04/our-continuing-s...


US law has never required a maximization of profit. The court case that went up to the supreme court set that down in writing. It rejected a lower court's suggestion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,... )

> Responding to lower court judges' suggestion that the purpose of for-profit corporations "is simply to make money," the court said, "For-profit corporations, with ownership approval, support a wide variety of charitable causes, and it is not at all uncommon for such corporations to further humanitarian and other altruistic objectives.

The meme of "duty to maximize profit" has no grounding in fact beyond internet comments trying to excuse unscrupulous behavior of a company with the justification that it was maximizing profits.

There is a "maximize shareholder value" (which isn't profits) but this is also recognized to be fuzzy.

https://www.mayerbrown.com/en/insights/publications/2023/03/...

> Corporate law has long required directors to act in the best interests of the corporation and its shareholders. In practice, this duty sometimes translated into a mandate to maximize shareholder value—at all costs. But while some businesspeople may follow that practice, most recognize that promoting shareholder interests invariably entails protecting the interests of others, such as employees and customers. Corporate law accommodates this reality by giving directors wide latitude in exercising their business judgment. Rather than such an impractical mandate that directors maximize shareholder value, courts say they must act in the best interests of the corporation and its shareholders.

> The flexibility in this framework entices advocates of non-shareholder interests to argue that directors owe a duty not only to the corporation and its shareholders but also to its employees, customers, and other constituents or “stakeholders.” Although this is certainly not the law, stakeholder advocates urge a norm in which directors no longer prioritize shareholder value but feel an obligation to such other constituents as well. Yet if it would be impracticable for judges to enforce a rule of shareholder value maximization, it would be more difficult to formulate a workable legal rule requiring directors to optimize across such contending interests.

The maximization of shareholder value was from Dodge v. Ford Motor Co. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

> This case is frequently cited as support for the idea that corporate law requires boards of directors to maximize shareholder wealth. However, one view is that this interpretation has not represented the law in most states for some time:

> Dodge is often misread or mistaught as setting a legal rule of shareholder wealth maximization. This was not and is not the law. Shareholder wealth maximization is a standard of conduct for officers and directors, not a legal mandate. The business judgment rule [which was also upheld in this decision] protects many decisions that deviate from this standard. This is one reading of Dodge. If this is all the case is about, however, it isn't that interesting. -- M. Todd Henderson

> However, others, while agreeing that the case did not invent the idea of shareholder wealth maximization, found that it was an accurate statement of the law, in that "corporate officers and directors have a duty to manage the corporation for the purpose of maximizing profits for the benefit of shareholders" is a default legal rule, and that the reason that "Dodge v. Ford is a rule that is hardly ever enforced by courts" is not that it represents bad case law, but because the business judgement rule means:

> The rule of wealth maximization for shareholders is virtually impossible to enforce as a practical matter. The rule is aspirational, except in odd cases. As long as corporate directors and CEOs claim to be maximizing profits for shareholders, they will be taken at their word, because it is impossible to refute these corporate officials' self-serving assertions about their motives. -- Jonathan Macey


Well I think taken literally, "not maximizing profit" can't possibly be sufficient grounds for an action. Nobody really has any idea of whether any particular strategy is profit-maximizing, so it's hard to believe a company can be sued for not following a profit-maximizing strategy.

But shareholders can sue over alleged harm to a corporation. I'm not a lawyer, so I really have no idea what the standard is here. But purely speculatively, I suppose someone could be sued for repeatedly missing obvious profit opportunities because the executives objected to them on ethical or other grounds.

I get the impression, though, that shareholders are more likely to sue for committing an active blunder (like selling off a division for an insanely low price) rather than for missing an opportunity.

There's a list of some famous shareholder actions here: https://www.dandodiary.com/2014/12/articles/shareholders-der...

More charitably, I think what people like quadrangle are really meaning to say is that there is a significant legal framework that very strongly incentivizes and is inspired by the idea that the first obligation of a corporation is to maximize profit. And if that was the point, then I think that's pretty close to the truth.

Sure, you won't be arrested for not maximizing profit, but remaining in business without attempting to put profit first is sufficiently hard that it typically requires special legal protections (as in B corporations).


That's an urban legend, as you suspect, at least in the US and UK - there's nothing in the law requiring to maximise profits.

https://legislate.ai/blog/does-the-law-require-public-compan...


No law I am aware of requires public companies to maximize profits for shareholders. I think it only applies when a company is for sale

Not "profit", but a duty to maximize shareholder value.

eBay Domestic Holdings, Inc. v. Newmark A Delaware Corporation has a duty to maximize shareholder value. That's the majority of all publicly held US corporations.

So I may generalize and state, _as a fact_, that the majority of public companies in the United States of America are driven primarily by insatiable avarice in a legal duty to their shareholders.


> Not sure why this is downvoted. publicly traded companies are legally required to go for maximum profit for their shareholders.

This stupid meme needs to die. The management of companies has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of shareholders. That does not imply any legal requirement to maximize profit.


Nonsense--there is no "legal duty to maximize profits". That concept isn't really meaningful: maximize over what term? In fact Amazon is probably the number one counter-example to that idea, they've never prioritized profits and have plowed everything they can back into infrastructure. There's also no "legal duty to pay employees as little as possible", nor "legal duty to fight unionization" nor a hundred other things that some corporations do against the interests of their employees. For publicly traded companies the only recourse shareholders have is to vote out the board if they don't think things are being run correctly, but there's no law that's defining what correctly is.

Private companies don't need to have a duty to maximize profits. It's just incredibly common. See https://watsi.org/about#values

No, publicly traded companies are beholden to act in the interests of the shareholders which in practicality is fairly vague. All companies are sort of designed to turn a profit or try to as they generally need that to continue existing but there is no legal requirement that they need to create a profit or maximize it, publicly traded or not. Obviously, companies do try to maximize profit as it makes everyone involved money but they don't have to.

Can you provide a link to the law that says a corporation must maximize profit even when it's against the desires of its shareholders?

There has never been a legal requirement for corporations to maximize profit. This is one of the greatest misconceptions propagated in the past 40 years.

A company's management has to act in the interest of shareholders, but that can be very loosely defined. A company that says "When making business decisions, we prefer protecting the environment over short-term profits, because our shareholders are humans living on Earth and without a good environment, our business would fail in the long-term" is not doing anything illegal. But if other companies don't follow suit, the eco-conscious company is in danger of being outcompeted.


> That's any for profit company no matter what anyone believes. Any company its only purpose is profit.

That's a myth. See for example

1. this aptly titled article: Corporations Don’t Have to Maximize Profits

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-co...

2. Tim Cook at Apple:

> The shareholder asked Cook about the company’s renewable energy efforts and told him that Apple should only undertake such efforts if they were profitable. In a rare display of anger, Cook replied that there were many things Apple did because they were right and just. “When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind,” he added, “I don’t consider the bloody ROI.” Then he added, “If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock.”

https://hbr.org/2016/09/the-maximize-profits-trap-in-decisio...

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