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"Trust us". That's super decentralized and trustless.


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Ah yes. In a completely "trustless" and "decentralized" environment I'm asked to trust an unknown centralized entity that they will keep all the historical data and have it open for inspection, pinky swear.

Perhaps it was a bad choice of words. What I mean is that they say "you don't need to trust us", yet they require you to run through them. They refuse to build their system in a decentralized way, and the more that time goes by the more the decentralized alternatives are showing they are as secure as Signal without forcing us to accept their restrictions like mandatory use of phone numbers for authentication.

But... trustless! /s

> whatever smidge of trust

Turns out the "trustless" in crypto means "you can't trust anyone".


Also, they can't. Be. Trusted.

Why aren't they trustworthy?

Your periodic reminder that talking about "trustlessness" in distributed systems only means that the consensus can be verified independently and that there is no central authority.

more like - 'zero trust' in the sense you cannot trust it

Isn't it designed and marketed to be trusted?

It’s “trustless” ;)

That's not surprising at all. Untrustworthy people doing untrustworthy business are the people most in need of a platform that doesn't rely on trust.

Why wouldn't they be trustable? You always have the option of building it yourself. (disclaimer, I'm one of the leads & run their infrastructure)

Trusted third parties:

1. Those who wrote the encryption and understand the math (very small %).

2. Those who write the software powering the blockchain (small %)

3. Those who write the wallet software you use to use the blockchain (small %)

4. Those who build the software you use on the same platform you use your wallet.

5. The operating system you use implementing all of the above.

6. The hardware you use implementing all of the above.

Yeah, tons of no trust....


Yep, it's all speculation and just blind faith that any of these opaque, closed-source apps (and network infrastructures) and trustworthy at all. It's "trust me, bro," but with many, many more words and much more marketing.

I wish more people would use something that's not US backed honestly.

Centralisation is a curse.

I don't inherently trust Signal, and you have to because nothing they do is verifiable; I wrote a really hit-and-miss article about this before: https://blog.dijit.sh/i-don-t-trust-signal/


Prove it. "Trust us" is not verifiable.

It doesn’t even have to be trustless, some of this crap is using RAFT (for speed), the assumption being that the participants are all trusted.

You're too trusting.

"Just trust us bro" isn't a 'solution'.
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