Most of these high tech drones are from DJI (check out the Agra lineup).
You know who has great use for that? US farmers.
Instead they get an all-out ban on DJI and they’re stuck with provider-locked John Deere tractors.
I really don’t understand how easy it can be to fool the American public just by saying “national security”, even when it’s clear that large parts of the public will not be best served by Washington’s “China bad!!!” policies.
> How many drones do you think DJI would sell if it became known that flight logs and aerial photos were being uploaded to the Chinese government
Roughly about as many as today. A recreational or content production drone is sitting dead without a battery >>95% of the time. This is a much weaker threat model (both objectively and in the perception of consumers) than all those connected, always-on microphones and cameras installed in homes, offices and pockets.
I mention this as a precedent: to many people out there, "the Chinese government" isn't a lot more foreign than "some American tech empire" and data-derived unpleasantries are far more likely to have practical implications for them with US immigration than with the Chinese communist party (because the US is still more open). And yet those people still buy westcoast-designed (and connected) devices like hotcakes.
I typed a reasonable reply to this but it got flagged. It shouldn’t have been flagged, it was reasonable and didn’t label anyone as “bad guys.” I don’t like that we can’t talk about DJI being bad, because they are a Chinese company, despite it being obviously true.
In case it isn’t known by everyone, DJI is a Chinese company.
So it would appear this development is conveniently in line with the Beijing Communist Party’s policy of enabling the rape and butchering of Ukraine.
And possibly one of the first real world examples, if intentional (note I didn’t say it was intentional but we don’t have evidence that it’s not, and no need to point out the converse), of the dangers of using technology sourced from a brutal dictatorship.
US has all but banned Chinese drones for most govt-related flight ops.
Japan has banned Chinese drones.
In Europe, internal risk-assessment memos are circulating advising security agencies to avoid using Chinese drones.
You’re missing a massive part of the context here.
This particular article may be missing factual evidence to support some of the voiced concerns, but it’s hardly a singular shout in an ocean of silence. It strongly resonates with a rather diverse chorus of voices coming from multiple independent sources.
> I find it interesting they are using DJI since they are banned in most US gov't agencies IME.
No one in China cares about petty crime in Cincinnati. There may be some long-con, APT style hack of local PDs to try to get into something bigger a la The Cuckoo's Egg, but it's probably easier to just bribe Lockheed managers.
I worry that this all removes the ability to have a sensible and legitimate conversation about DJI.
Elise Stefanik can go fuck herself for all the reasons listed elsewhere, lets get that on the table.
BUT we should be thoughtful, if not worried, about DJI. Here's a couple of reasons:
1) When the original Mavic Pro was released I showed mine to someone who had worked in US intelligence. His jaw dropped and said that based on other stuff he'd heard in his circles and now marrying it up with the product in his hands, it was clear IP that had been stolen from US DOD contractors and the government itself was in this device.
2) We know that the CCP has influence over all Chinese companies. I worked for Uber when we were operating in China and saw first hand the influence and access Chinese government had over operations and data. ANYONE who claims otherwise hasn't had first hand experience or is a shill (there's a lot of those around - there's more Chinese intelligence activity in Silicon Valley than in DC. I encountered that at Uber too.)
3) The amount of tracking that DJI can do and send home to China is concerning. Sensors, GPS and of course camera footage. When we worry about companies like Huawei intruding into our infrastructure, it's still at the data layer. DJI represents exposure into the kinetic layer which opens up all kinds of further vectors of concern.
4) These are being used for war, for now for the most part "on our side" (Ukraine) but DJI is already trying to disable some of that and is picking sides. Next time it might not be our side that wins the advantage.
5) You can't legislate "for the bad stuff" that could happen, which a few other commenters have suggested. The "bad stuff" would be happening on Chinese servers in China. It's out of jurisdiction. You buy a Chinese product like this, you're agreeing to the terms of engagement occurring outside of your friendly US/European jurisdictions. When this happens the only thing a country can do is ban the import, and here we are...
I have not bought the more recent versions of the DJI drones as I'm very conflicted on using DJI products based on what I know and what I can see up the road. I would love to pay 20-50% more for similar products from a US/Western company. I'm fine with them being manufactured in China but I want the company and the servers and the software operated in friendly countries (just like Apple).
(also, the voting on this comment is fascinating - lots of upvote and then suddenly a ton of downvotes. There's either lot of pro-Chinese brigading here or something else going on. If you disagree with my points please reply instead)
I understand that as being the main motivator but in light of the recent Supermicro and Huawei incidents, and the recent escalations between the US and China, I can't help but wonder if lots of electronics manufactured in China are being "bugged" and drones would seem to hold high potential value for surveillance
I've seen that suggested a couple of times, but it doesn't make sense. They could literally just order pilots to report possible drones or UFOs when they see them, and not put up an obvious signal to the Chinese (or whoever) that the US military has a cultural blind spot WRT reporting foreign drones in its airspace.
That release is about using DJI drones in government and military installations. There is not a suggestion that DJI is being used to do wide spread civilian spying.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are foreign drones flying over US soil. Probably not weaponized but I'm sure there are plenty EU/Asia/ME fugitives that are hiding in USA, so that reconnaissance drones would be fine.
Its not like government of ME countries is fine with drones taking out their citizens, whether terrorist or not.. they get paid money and for sure more than just that.
what's the purported privacy risk/s to American citizens specifically with DJI's drones? or is this purely a matter of geopolitics? (TFA links to a paywalled NYT article on what seems to be this point.)
https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463946/dji-drone-ban-pen...
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