Not really. Sexuality is and ought to be a normal part of human life and the repressed puritanism of US culture in particular is kind of awful.
There's a distinction worth making between voyeurism and sexualizing others but when someone portrays themselves as they want to be seen I have no idea why that needs to be put in some sort of box. Because there ought to be nothing offensive about sex, which is just about the most natural thing on earth.
And of course for some reason everything is assumed to be sexualized, from a sculpture of a torso to even breastfeeding mothers, I still remember 'female presenting nipples' on what was it, tumblr? It's like some sort of cursed feedback loop where the repression leads people to be horny about every sight of a nipple.
not just anything sexual, but mere nudity on social media platforms seems to be controversial. I remember the "female presenting nipples" debacle on Tumblr including pictures of breast-feeding mothers.
"no censorship" apparently means, "don't anger American conservatives", not "everyone can speak and share".
People have been horny since ever. Simply having exposed breasts might not be universally considered 'erotica' but representations of people actually having sex? Nah that's pron.
It always seemed to me, as outsider, that sex in the US culture is a single topic that is especially uncomfortable to people, far more than in Europe. Just look at the TV/movies or social media rules: you can show blood, violence, guns, all kinds of criminal or deviant behavior, but any kind of nudity will set off alarms, to the point that we need to defend mothers' rights to breastfeed in public because nipples are somehow offensive? And if someone can be upset by mother breastfeeding a baby, then why be surprised that someone else is easily upset by unwanted sexual context of a joke or a conversation? That's simply what happens when society suppresses sexuality as something completely inappropriate outside of bedroom or academical discussions. And also alienation of people doesn't really help, our private space is getting bigger and bigger everyday, and we're more and more intimidated by any casual human contact. Being a hard-core introvert I sort of like it better that way, but that has a consequences that you need to respect other people's right to not give a damn about you, too.
This is perhaps the weirdest thing about American moral values. Everything from ads to performances are oversexualised as hell but all hell comes down when someone actually pulls off their clothes. I've seen dresses that are closer to wearable nipple covers than an article of clothing on TV and some music videos contain more grinding than the average porn movie, but show a nip slip and you're in for a world of trouble.
There's an absurd focus on the female nipple specifically. Someone should create a service that censors female nipples by replacing them with male nipples so they can be posted on social media and other platforms without any issues.
I see your confusion, but I never actually agreed that the way people approached it in the past was ridiculous. Nearly every single human custom is arbitrary and subjective, but there's no reason to abandon all preferences simply because we understand that.
"Modesty" in my country means that behaviors and body parts that are considered sexual are not displayed prominently or advertised; it doesn't matter that a nipple may not be inherently sexual, because everyone here feels that it is, and thus not displaying (and by extension, not saturating TV, movies, and advertisements with images of sexualized breasts) would be considered modest.
I certainly wouldn't mind if the nipple was eventually de-sexualized, but seeing as that's likely not possible given the internet, and since it will likely remain sexualized at least in the western world, I'd prefer if people were modest about it.
The more I think about it, the weirder becomes the fact that the one and only part of human anatomy that is specifically made to go into a baby’s mouth is a sex symbol.
If it had been men’s nipples, which are otherwise useless, that had been sexualised, that would’ve been much less weird; but it’s fine for me to go around topless and nobody cares.
In some ways, US cultural norms over sex, or nudity are incredibly restrictive. To some US corps, nazi apologism is OK and a defending it a vital part of free speech. But female nipples are the worst thing ever and must be banned.
Eh, an interesting comment. I assume you merely skimmed mine, because I was only using the term 'boobs' to refer to getting to see a naked lady without any of the usual cultural impediments (wooing, dating, even tracking down and negotiating for the services of a hooker). It seemed very clear in context. I'm well aware that fixation on breasts isn't natural in the context of human anthropological development, yet the fetishization of boobs is common enough today that I thought it an appropriate metaphor for 'faux sexual contact that's good enough for the lizard-brain yet functionally "free"'.
The thrust (if you will) of your comment is either an extended triumphant riff on my poor choice of the concept 'boobs' (and possibly trying to shame those who do fetishize boobs), or it's an attempt to distract from my comment's thesis -- namely, that the profusion of modern free porno might actually be having an effect on us. I don't think that's ridiculous. I'm well aware that many a society has had pornographic materials under varying aegises, but many were furtive and socially, if not legally, prohibited.
I don't think it's unreasonable to claim that our society has the lowest barrier to access, the highest quality, and the largest diversity of pornographic materials in the history of humanity. Further, this profusion of porno is comparatively recent. Are we supposed to believe that this can't be having an effect on us? I presume you have a stronger argument than merely implying that I'm super obsessed with boobs (and that some Victorian aspect of my maturbatory habits are to blame).
I'm sorry, but linking this to genitalia doesn't make any sense.
Society prohibits the exposure of genitalia for both men and women. Although it's certainly up for debate whether that's reasonable or not, the treatment is equal. And at least genitalia perform a sexual function, so if the principle is that we shouldn't show organs with a primarily sexual function, for whatever reason, at least there's some sort of principle at work.
The issue of the nipple is completely separate and indefensible. The nipple has very similar appearance for both sexes; it performs no sexual function, and the one function it does have for women is something that has no obvious moral basis to prohibit. To wit: adults eating in public is fine, children eating in public is fine, but, for some reason, a baby eating in its natural form in public is not fine.
I agree with OP. It's nuts and we will likely see this view relaxed over time, though I have no idea how long of a time horizon.
I do not mean personal, I mean cultural, especially in the West. Nipples are more taboo than gore, sex work is not accepted openly as any other profession, you'd probably be a little weirded out if I had a miniature of Priapus with his remarkable erection [1] in my house.
Of course, times have changes since the Romans, but it'd be quite disingenuous to say that we are as sexually free and disinhibited as they were. We're still recovering from the Middle Ages censorship and Christian mortification of the flesh. I'd argue we've reverted back from whatever sexual freedom the Hippies in the 60s were striving for to a more conservative society on that aspect.
I think this is a "one step at a time" situation. Nipples are obvious. No cogent argument can be made in favor of banning only female chests. Genitalia are different because they can be sexualized. I'd argue that a flaccid penis is not a sexualized thing and should not be censored. But what about an erect penis? And what precisely constitutes an erection? Point being, there's a lot of gray area and genuinely tough questions that will need to be answered when it comes to genitalia. But the nipple issue is about as black and white as any issue can get.
Except it's not an USA thing. Here in Europe showing nipples in a public place is also considered nudity and generally frowned upon. It's a cultural thing, no need to attribute ideology to it. And the culture is shifting - just a century ago it was considered not modest if you wore shorts or short skirts, or two-piece swimsuits, now it's normal and accepted.
Nipples aren’t porn. Being topless on the beach or breastfeeding are common, normal and not porn. Yet their depiction is forbidden because US companies control most social media.
"Some would say that pornography implies sex. Others that it is defined by the content’s purpose. Some would contend that considering the mere exposition of the female body outside of any sexual interaction as pornographic is, in itself, objectification and sexualisation."
It definitely varies from culture to culture. In the US a bared nipple on national television was a sensation, in the UK it's par for the course.
In some cultures women regularly go bare chested, in the US being topless on a beach could land you in jail.
In some cultures men wear nothing but a penis-sheath in public, while that would be considered outrageous in many other cultures.
In the US it used to be considered indecent if a woman showed an ankle, and uncivilized not to wear a hat.
In India hugging or kissing in public might get you assaulted[1], while it's no big deal in many other countries.
There are taboos in every culture, but what is taboo varies from one culture to another.
There's a distinction worth making between voyeurism and sexualizing others but when someone portrays themselves as they want to be seen I have no idea why that needs to be put in some sort of box. Because there ought to be nothing offensive about sex, which is just about the most natural thing on earth.
And of course for some reason everything is assumed to be sexualized, from a sculpture of a torso to even breastfeeding mothers, I still remember 'female presenting nipples' on what was it, tumblr? It's like some sort of cursed feedback loop where the repression leads people to be horny about every sight of a nipple.
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