The point is that people aren't buying EVs because of feel-good environmental sentiment. They are buying them because the cars fit well into their lifestyle.
The “EVs are good for the environment” ads are for the consumers, many of whom haven’t made their minds up about which car to buy next. People have made their minds up about whether they like remote work or not — see every HN thread ever.
Tesla EVs were marketed to the upper-middle class as a status symbol based on cutting-edge looks and performance, and to merely 'signal' environmental consciousness. Most people I know who aspire to own one work in finance and consulting roles, and don't really care that much about the environment, they just want something cool. The poser environmentalism just comes along for the ride.
Likewise, when people upgrade to the latest iPhone every generation, they aren't thinking about their recycling program, let alone the environmental cost of extraction of rare earth materials, or the workers at Foxconn.
That Elon Musk didn't bother working on the waste part of the equation, doesn't surprise me.
People shouldn't be upset at any EV owner's perceived elitist tone. The EV transition will last about 10 years and we're all aware that while the future is already here, it's very unevenly distributed. You can assume that everyone understands this, because otherwise we would all have to start every single post/tweet/blog with a long disclaimer/trigger warning about how we're keenly aware of our privilege, a blurb about inequality, a blurb about Wright's Law, etc etc. It'll get very repetitive and obnoxious very quickly.
I've had my EV for close to four years now and I "sell" EVs to basically everyone I meet as a hobby. Plenty of people are easy to convince. Yes, most people can't afford them, or the limited options available (until 2021, basically just Tesla) doesn't quite fit their preferences. This is easy, as prices will drop below ICEVs within a few years and all major OEMs will offer EVs. Convincing them isn't about getting them to buy an EV right now, but just to decide that it's their next car. I test drove a Model S in 2013 and was absolutely sold on EVs as the future, even though I didn't purchase a Model 3 until 5 years after that.
The tough parts are the people with emotional attachments to fossil fuels. The smells, the noises, the vibrations are all taken as positives. And of course, there is frequently just a lot of plain old FUD about battery fires, being stranded, etc. There's also a lot of machismo and fantastical claims about needing to drive 12hrs in the tundra without stopping, etc. Luckily they're a minority, so simple price moves will get 80% of people to switch.
Imo, this is the single biggest argument that can still be validly made to prevent the mass adoption of EVs.
People, for the most part, are easy to convince when it comes to buying expensive products that promise to reduce the amount of stress in their lives. Not so much for products that they are told will do the opposite though.
With EVs the focus becomes how wonderful they are because they do not burn fossil fuels in their engines. Great, but what about what all the other issues (including non renewable issues in the rest of the supply chain involved in building the EV)? They're greenwashed away - no need to discuss public transit and densification. EVs will fix everything and we don't need to change our life on any significant way.
They are a way to continue going down the wrong path and feel good about it.
There's so much fanboyism around EVs, I think that EV proponents seriously overestimate their appeal and impact. To most of us a car is just a car, not some statement to the world about my alignment with the right causes and the cool kids. It seems like a highly emotional topic for those that are proponents, not a good sign.
The automakers, not wanting to be left out of the Next Big Thing, jumped in once it became clear that EVs were kinda workable. You can't blame them, they have to follow the market. I'm sure they had internal doubters, but you have to see plans through just in case. I'd argue investment in EVs is just a hedge for at least half of the automakers.
Outside of a few diehards proponents, no one I know is particularly interested in owning an EV. EV proponents can't stop talking about how world changing and life affirming they are. I'm sure that's where part of the lack of interest from the rest of us stems from. We just don't care.
In my observation and conversations with people, electric vehicles are associated with the brainiacs and luxury brands. There's a large portion of people that identify with the "blue collar" - they don't perceive EVs as aligning with their values. Some taglines from truck manufacturers: "Built Ford tough" "Guts. Glory. Ram." We might suspect that people buy these vehicles as a reflection of their male virtues.
It also points out the fallacy and lie of electric car companies caring about the environment. They don't. It's just the new thing to sell. Just like every company known to man is parroting sustainability now.
There's so much fanboyism around EVs, I think that EV proponents seriously overestimate their appeal and impact. To must of us a car is just a car, not some statement to the world about my alignment with the right causes and the cool kids. It seems like a highly emotional topic for those that are proponents, not a good sign.
The automakers, not wanting to be left out, jumped in once it became clear that EVs were kinda workable. You can't blame them, they have to follow the market. I'm sure they had internal doubters, but you have to see plans through just in case. I'd argue investment in EVs is just a hedge for at least half of the automakers.
Outside of a few diehards proponents, no one I know is particularly interested in owning an EV. EV proponents can't stop talking about how world changing and life affirming they are. I'm sure that's where part of the lack of interest stems from.
Probably because it seems there's an air of superiority of being better than others for choosing an EV. There are studies that prove owners of hybrids/EV's want their card badges to flaunt they're driving them.
If it were just hey I got this cool EV and I really like it I think people would be less stand-offish. Instead it feels more like "Hey I bought an EV and you're a bad person who wants to kill our planet if you don't get one. I don't care that you do things like bike to work and walk places. If you have a ICE car you're bad, conform now!"
I don't want one, they don't currently meet my needs and I don't live in an urban area that has charging stations everywhere. When I say that I typically get shit on by a bunch of EV enthusiasts in online forums. So, my default response has been tainted by these encounters and I assume most EV owners are this way. I realize I'm not being fair though. I have the same problem with Vegans as well.
It’s mostly that people don’t value the pros (the thing helps to mitigate climate change) enough, because they don’t care, don’t truly understand how it will affect them, or are selfish.
See every thread on HN about EVs - people won’t accept the most minor compromises (cons) to day to day driving.
You repeat my point. It has been decided that EVs are good for society, and they are being mandated. Thus their widespread adoption will not be because "customers want them".
I'm a fan of EV technology, I'm as green as they come and love nature, our lungs, and believe in climate change and the need to pull the planet back from that.
And I have absolutely no intention of buying an EV.
My balance is to run older cars, much less. I commute to work by train, I walk to the supermarkets and back, I cycle sometimes.
For longer distances, I might bust out our 2005 5 door Toyota ... for fun, I'll roll out a 69 Bug at the weekend ... I have some other classics in mind.
I got excited about EV's, Tesla, etc about 10 years ago ... and the passion has absolutely fizzled out.
I've spent time with a few and they're boring computers (and I love computers). I firmly believe that maintaing older cars and using them less is much better for the enviroment overall. AND, importantly, I still enjoy the hell out of my cars.
The only EV I got mildly excited about, recently, for looks was the ioniq 5 ... that looks pretty badasss ... but even that has faded. All the rest look like something I'd ride to the airport. They almost all have the design language of a taxi-cab.
I'm not sure what EV companies can do to reach me. But add me to the list of fewer people buying electric cars.
EV conversions of older models probably fills this tiny niche quite well.
I had assumed the overly loud voices complaining about this "issue" were just the latest iteration of intelligent people inventing convoluted reasons to go along with their political tribe's insane policy preferences.
Like if you're a Republican on HN you can't just openly deny climate change exists any more (though a few still try), you want plausible deniability that your intense love for nuclear power isn't just an excuse to spread outdated lies about renewables.
Similarly you can loudly announce that you'll never buy an EV, and then when people put you in the "coal rolling idiot" bucket you can surprise them by revealing that it's actually a ridiculously niche concern about too much tech that you've invented to go along with your political peers in their hatred of EVs. And people reading then move you into a subtly different subsection of the anti-EV crank bucket in their mind.
Some* people are buying EVs because they're "better". Other people, like me, have zero interest in most modern vehicles, whether EV or not. I have zero interest in a vehicle that gets software updates, or that can choose for itself to slam the breaks on, or that has the ability to upload my data for collection, or that can be remotely disabled, or that isn't built to be maintained easily in my garage, or that has giant touchscreen nonsense. I realize I might be in the minority, but that's OK.
I feel that most modern vehicles are designed and built purely to make as much money as possible, rather than to actually a good, reliable, maintainable vehicle. And it works, because the average consume either doesn't care or is easily to manipulate.
If you want to convert more people to EVs, start building some that I'm remotely interested in. That and invest into solid state batteries, I'm mostly waiting for that too. Solid state batteries would solve most of the issues with EV tech.
It's too bad, I hoped EVs were one thing everyone could agree on. Maybe because it's good for the environment. Or because it's good for energy independence.
Apologies if I came off as smug!
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