Ya, vaccines make it less deadly, that’s not new news. But you’re asserting that yin didn’t get covid because you live in a blue state, and that’s demonstrably false.
I'm not talking about the vaccine itself killing people, and I don't believe the comment I replied to was either. I'm saying that more people have died from Covid after being vaccinated than have died from Covid after having gained natural immunity. Meaning they survived the first infection, got infected again, and then died from that second infection.
Correlation is not causation. It's funny that folks point at vaccines while ignoring pre existing conditions, yet with COVID it was the pre existing conditions and not COVID that were killing people.
I never said vaccines can't be dangerous. I was talking about the relative danger of a vaccine. A plausible upper bound on the absolute risk is the Cutter incident. Covid is way above that. Even a shitty vaccine that occasionally kills people at a rate of 10 in 200,000, it would still be a better bet than COVID.
The people getting the Polio vaccine (children) were the general population of people at highest risk of death by polio. The same is true for the Covid vaccine, at least for the next few months. Both are mass vaccination campaigns.
Besides calling me stupid and gullible, do you have an answer for my original point, which is that the Covid vaccines behave so differently than other vaccines, and that there may be a public health benefit in acknowledging that?
I get vaccinated against measles, or polio, or tetanus, and I don't have to worry about catching or spreading any of those diseases for years. With the Covid vaccine, some sources[0] say fully-vaccinated people are only half as likely as unvaccinated people to catch it (though obviously with less severe effects), and maybe about as likely to transmit it to others[1], and the protective effects wear off in a matter of months. That clearly doesn't line up with the public's traditional understanding of vaccines.
“even if the “vaccines” did reduce the severity and number of deaths it was a win”
I said in another reply that I have “virus induced asthma”. A simple cold will cause my immune system to overact and cause me severe difficultly breathing. I was first in line for the vaccines and I did an MRNA booster before it was recommended in the US because I read what I thought were credible studies from other countries about needing it after the J and J one shot.
I’ve also said before that “I retired my wife” who was working as a school bus driver because I didn’t feel it was safe before the vaccine came out.
> The impact on the death rate and severe outcome of COVID is being seen even years later
I’m not disagreeing with that. You’re preaching to the choir. I am saying it was a messaging problem to call it a vaccine if it doesn’t prevent you from getting the disease.
I’m very surprised so many in the HN community are unable to see these cognitive traps. The vaccines were tested. They may have a small chance of killing you or creating other ill effects down the run, but they don’t kill 3% of the vaccinated like SARS-CoV2 does with the infected. And that says nothing about long COVID and other long term damage the virus causes. And let’s not get into the new, deadlier variations.
So, unless the person is sure they are safe from contagion, that they are adequately isolated and will not contract the virus, any vaccine is better than no vaccine.
You seem happy to be countering his personal experience with your own personal experience, and jump to the conclusion that there's no difference (wrong) and the vaccine does nothing (wrong) so why bother risking long term consequences (there's zero reason to think there's any from vaccines, while there are reasons to think there are many from Covid)
If only there was a way to objectively assess these things... Oh wait there is, it's called "doing a randomized controlled trial on more than 3 people" and "numerous observational studies from real world data"
And guess what ? From this data, you're 90% less likely to get severely ill and 95% less likely to die if you've been vaccinated, even with Delta.
> If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data.
No he's right. Still about 95% protection against death from Delta.
> More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less.
Wrong.
> Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more.
Still wrong.
Unless you've been comparing vaccinated 80 year olds with unvaccinated 20 year olds maybe ?
Hold on... People tell me I'm not at all likely to die of delta now that I've been vaccinated. If the unvaxxed are only 11x more likely, then the vaccines do not work as advertised. It's like ... The rabies vaccine provides orders of magnitude better protection as does polio and measles, etc. The covid vaccines are not effective enough and it's becoming more obvious each day.
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