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Even retrofits still run into many issues. Delivering gasoline to gas stations for example requires hooking up hoses etc. Training people on site to do it is possible, but it’s a huge shift for an industry and unlikely to finish very quickly. The same applies to delivering cement or wide loads etc which require different behavior while driving.

On top of this retrofits for every existing model is a non trivial problem on it’s own.



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It’s very difficult to match the capability of “carrying a jerrycan of petrol” with current electrical technology.

Being able to "refuel" quickly is a pretty big plus, so in the balance it could still be better to accept some moving parts in exchange for that.

And it's easy to imagine retrofitting a gas station to all of a sudden have charged electrolyte instead of gas, but I'm sure that has all sorts of additional complexities that I know nothing about... ;)


Looks like a study of adding more controls vs likelihood of screwing things up. Are modern fuel transfer systems this complicated?

I would bet it’s even harder to shield gasoline vehicles. But this was solved a lifetime ago.

I understand that it's going to be very difficult, and it's going to take years, but that's no reason to not do it.

Gasoline dispensing is extremely complicated - what you really mean is that the complexity is just hidden from you and has been optimized on for decades.

Next time you fill your car with ~15 gallons (60L), have a think about how many gallons of diesel must have been burnt to get that gas you're pumping. Have a think about all the machinery involved in making it, transporting it and then you pumping it. Trucks, oil tankers, more trucks, pumps, etc.

Have a think about how differently we would think if we had to physically carry our own 15 gallons of carcinogenic explosive liquid every time we wanted to enable us to drive ~350 (550km) miles.

The system we have works very well, but it's terrible in every way.


Needing to strap gas to the roof of a vehicle because of lack of infrastructure is a common issue?

Safety is our #1 priority. Our trucks and all of our components have been inspected and approved by several industry experts and authorities.

There are a lot of details here, but the "tldr" is that transporting gasoline and refueling cars requires caution, but it's a solved problem.


Have you used a vehicle powered by natural gas? I have. For safety reasons, in many places you have to get out of the vehicle while it is being refuelled (the cylinder gets really hot!). And that is a change from your 50+ years driving habit. It also takes longer than a comparable gas pump (even if it is measured in single digit minutes). The gas gauge also reads differently (my guess is due to pressure decreases as gas is consumed).

You can't really expect to radically change tech and have the entire experience be the same.

Not to mention that the only thing preventing one from filling up a tank the way they do with gasoline is battery technology. If they are improved (graphene capacitors?), almost nothing needs to change in the grid.

[EDIT: I am comparing the hydrogen gas stations (which are so rare that might not even exist) to the experience of refilling a compressed natural gas vehicle. It is the closest real world parallel I can think of.]


But the maintenance is really pretty simple, the biggest problem with any gas-burning vehicle would be that all modern gas will be more or less useless after a year or so.

Well, you gotta have some gas to pump the other way... which is kind of the problem : they don't.

1) its more complex to design a re-fuelable fuel system

2) no vehicle exists/existed at design that could support a re-fuel system.


Probably a lot harder than you would think because there are tons and tons of different versions of the pumps out there. You'd also need to get your solution certified for each model of pump. It could make sense if there is a particular model that is especially common and reasonably modern (so you aren't asking the owner to upgrade a pump that only has a couple of years left on it anyway), but my impression from driving around is that there are about as many gas pump designs as there are service stations.

Even easier: just prevent gas from being delivered.

Cars also make excellent roadblocks.


I have seen some of them prevent people from fueling their vehicles at local service stations. The current sizes are not compatible with size expectations.

I want to say there was a Ford which had a fuel port on the rear of the vehicle which had to position the car further forward than usual, blocking the traffic exit while filing up the vehicle.


Yeah it's like the petrol (aka gas) tanker needs a smaller petrol tank to drive itself.

I'm no expert but I think when cars are converted, they can run on both natural gas and on gasoline. Gasoline is used to start the car. Wouldn't that solve the range issue?

Obvious problem in USA is availability of natural gas at gas stations, but that is a chicken and an egg problem - would be solved with more demand.


I don't see how hauling the gasoline to vehicles could possibly be better unless the tanker was acting as a mobile, stationary (until the tank is emptied) station and came directly from the same place current tankers do (no intermediate storage). In such a scenario, it's possible that there might be a slight improvement. However, from what I can tell this service seems to go wherever someone has parked; meaning lots of traveling and one-off trips for the tankers.

>It's a pretty insignificant concern, though, relative to the positives (time savings, convenience) and negatives (safety).

It seems pretty convenient that the only beneficiary is the person responsible for the negatives (which we will all suffer from).


The unleaded transition started in the early 1970s you can find plenty of boats that take unleaded gas.

Of all the problems cars of that generation have the one that bugs me the most is poor rustproofing. You see people driving classic cars all the time in dry places like California and New Mexico but in Upstate NY road salt will eat a car like that alive if you drive it in the winter.

So if we got a boat we'd need a garage to keep it in and another car to be a driver in the winter.


> But how would a H2 fueling station work?

The one near my home seems to work, by observing people using it (it's colocated with a gas station) pretty much just like a normal gas station. I'm sure the coupling hardware is quite special, and it might take a little longer (or not) for a similar range fuel load, but when people fuel their Mirais it's the same basic flow as with gas vehicles, pull up to the pump, hook it up, fuel, and go from a drive-in pump, not a parking space. So, it's on the same basic ballpark, UX wise, not the “well, if I was on a long trip and needed to fuel, it's okay because i’ll just time it with a meal/rest break” kind of thing that is used to justify BEV charging not being excessively inconvenient.

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