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"our constitution and history make liberty and minimal government power the default here, so all of the authoritarianism that's come with covid is an attack on what was once a free country"

I usually see Canada being described the other way around, and to be honest if someone asked me for the most free countries Canada would not be the first in my list.



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So you're saying that your country, Canada, yearns for freedom?

Canadians love flattering comparisons to the US. As a Canadian, however, this pandemic mostly revealed how dangerously incompetent most levels of government are in this country.

Canada has had some of the longest, most evidence-free lockdowns of any Western country. Our vaccine acquisition strategy was a disaster, saved only by the near miraculous ramp-up in manufacturing capacity by two American pharmaceutical companies: Moderna and Pfizer. None of those vaccines were manufactured in Canada.

The federal government effectively doubled the national debt in about a year, firehosing money to any and all causes indiscriminately. Small businesses like restaurants and gyms remained closed or severely restricted in much of the country for well over a year, while large foreign businesses like Costco and Amazon thrived. Only in the last month have things started to open up again.

Provinces instituted draconian restrictions, up to an including a months-long 8PM curfew in the province of Quebec. Movement between provinces, a constitutionally-guaranteed freedom, was severely curtailed - roadblocks with police presence were often set up to prevent "non-essential" travel within the country.

All manner of restrictions on fundamental freedoms were reaffirmed by the courts, relying heavily one Section 1 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as its escape clause: "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

Translation: fundamental rights can be abrogated by government whenever it's convenient to do so.

The minority federal government used the pandemic opportunistically, shutting down legitimate investigations into misuse of government funds and ramming through legislation that was unrelated to the pandemic - draconian gun control legislation, massive increases in carbon taxes, regulation of social media, "hate speech" laws that aim to severely curtail freedom of expression, the list goes on. Any criticism of these bills was met with cries of "Now is not the time for criticism, this is a pandemic!".

With a useless senate, captive courts, and weak opposition parties, our government has shown itself to be a rather authoritarian one. And with no term limits, it's quite possible we could be under the thumb of incompetent authoritarianism-lite for the next decade.

The worst part is that few Canadians seem to be bothered by this.


Your comments regarding our current political leadership are mostly accurate. It feels like we were living in some kind of alternate reality in some ways. The pandemic seemed to cause the worst sides of us all to come out while our government really fanned the flames. It really is inexcusable in my opinion.

I think Canada is better if you are an outdoorsy type person. Access to nature is really the primary appeal of the country in my opinion. Of course the US is awesome as well in this regard.


This is a very weird take. You’re assuming Canada is a victim in this, again, super weird take. As if the Canadian govt hasn’t already demonstrated its authoritarian policies for decades already.

Canada created and implemented this policy, not the US.


I've not heard of Canada having a dystopian regime, can you elaborate what you mean by that?

Ah The China model. Thought Canada was a free society?

In many ways Canada feels like a feudal state to me. The provinces simply have too much power.

> Canada is an interesting choice as a backup location for when the USA becomes unsuitable.

Good for a World War III scenario. Less good for a "delete this [wide class of information] or else" scenario, as there are now two governments to appease and the Canadian one is far less free-speech-friendly than the US one.


The 'freedoms' (more accurately called rights) that Canada sacrifices to make the country work better and simpler, such as specific local & state rights, are not the lost freedoms that most Canadians think make the country better. By removing some forms of vetocracy, the state can coordinate better and avoids some forms of small scale corruption, although not enough as most of the housing crisis shows.

Much of the dysfunction of the USA partly comes from it's size and it's economic, climatic & historical diversity compared to Canada. Canada is significantly smaller economically, historically and population wise. It is also a country that has had consistently cold winters, which creates cultural values that forces you to save for the winter, which makes everyone work better together, which is something you see similar with Scandinavian countries [0].

The USA has many climates that make fairly different cultures in subtle ways. Canada works better because it's smaller and accidents of history, not because they don't have free speech. Canada is more american than they feel comfortable with, and this creates a unease that makes them feel like they need to differentiate themselves on minor difference, much like two twins.

[0] If your wondering why russia doesn't work like scandinavia, one reason why is hundreds of years of brutal mongolian rule, while scandinanvia avoided that trauma.


Oh, mostly because I'm a Canadian and the Canadian response to everything is dictated by its citizens determining what the government does in reaction to various stimuli. I'm not going to execute a violent coup to overthrow the Canadian government to force my personal ideals on everyone else but me expressing my ideals and trying, within the system, to tilt the responses to what works for me is, in fact, the Canadian government working as designed.

Canada is an abstract concept - just like Florida - it isn't authoritarian or freedom loving as an inherent property, it is responding to the will of its populace. I personally think my ideals would help Canada be a safer and more prosperous country, so why should I say "screw all these guys" and jump ship... I'd prefer to stay and try and make my neighbors safer. That said, I'm actually a US-Canadian dualie so it is an adopted home.


On the contrary, I feel like the pandemic has revealed the fragility and asymmetric distribution of costs in our society, and the governments unwillingness to even address it. I do not consider democracy in danger, but there are some pretty serious precedents being set.

I suspect Canadians aren't concerned because for the most part Canadians have lived a very comfortable existence for a very long time due to the nature of our geopolitical privileges. I think the hyperbole tossed around regarding the convoy and blockade illustrate this.


POV From Canada: The decline started earlier. But it wasn’t until the coronavirus pandemic that we can see that the United States can’t try to handle its problems. They seem essentially broken. The basics of a coordinated response was entirely absent.

It’s like if your house is burning down, but everyone in the house is yelling at each other instead of trying to put out the fire. We are looking south and it’s like looking at a bubbling pool of madness. As much as Canadians don’t want to admit it, we love the United States. We are also afraid since America collapses, we might get dragged into their descent.


Why would he be?

I don't mean to troll, and perhaps I missed the tongue-in-cheek element, but this kind of corny quote means nothing. Canada did not fight a war for the "land of the free" and is doing quite fine in its slavery to the British crown, thank you.


Canada has turned into a totalitarian hell-hole. First things turned bad in Quebec, but then all over Canada now. Quality of life wise is only good if you're enjoying the scripted theatre show, I do not, never have.

At least, the US (outside of the blue states) have some leftover Rights worth fighting for.


Canada is fairly captive...

> In the US the division is arguably worse and the masks are coming off.

You sure about that? As recently as 1995, Canada was with 0.4% of a vote to split the country in two.

In the 1970's the deputy Premier of Quebec was kidnaped and murdered by Quebec separatists.

In 1990 the Canadian and Quebec governments used the military and authorized lethal force to put down an armed rebellion by the Mohawk tribe, after a Canadian court allowed the development of a golf course on native land.

Just because Canada is largely ignored by the American and International media, doesn't mean that everything is lovely and everyone is sitting around singing kum ba yah.


Canada has some pretty minor restrictions. It's not as liberal as Japan but it's not as conservative as Australia.

I'm currently an expat in the US, looking for my next move.

The thing I like about Canada is that it has kind of a rivalry with the US. It wants to show that it's its own country, and doesn't just mimic everything the US does or act like a lapdog to it. This makes me think that once freedom in the US really does completely tank, freedom in Canada may be upheld. What are your thoughts?


Canada is bigger than the US and has as at least as much freedom of movement as the US.
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