Please show me where Corbyn said anything against Jewish people for being jewish? He, like me, is strongly against the Israeli occupation of Palestine and the war crimes it commits against its peoples in exercise of that.
Saying so does not make you a bigot or an anti semite. Israel and it's defenders hide behind these kind of statements and they're nonsense. Labour if elected would not have given Israel such an easy ride and they throw a lot of money around -- thus, Corbyn is an anti-semite and labour has 'issues' around Jews, and surprise surprise; the tories got in and are happy to sell them lots of nice missiles and intelligence.
It's bullshit. They just have ethics. I Would feel the exact same way if it was Christians or Hindus or whatever in charge of Israel and behaving like this; where is the defence then? Criticise us and you're anti-christian? Doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
Why? It's pretty evident at this point that the whole Labour anti-Semitism thing was a cheap way to generate clicks and tank Corbyn-led Labour. Criticism of Israel's genuinely awful human rights record is not anti-Semitic.
Totally agree here. I worked quite closely with Corbyn for a bit on human rights issues (esp. Israel/Palestine) and though I might disagree with him on a lot of things - he most definitely is not Semitic. It is very clear to me for reasons unfortunately I don't have time to outline that there is a very clearly orchestrated campaign against him. Basically, it follow the exact same methods, people, talking points etc of other similar smear campaigns against people in the UK holding views that the Israeli right wing government doesn't like.
Show me the most antisemitic thing Corbyn has ever done.
These slurs on his character are spread by newspapers and TV but when you look into them there's nothing there. If you can't give me an example, please consider that you might have 'been had'.
Your statements about tankies and Sanders are beyond incoherent. I really have no idea how to talk with you if you think Corbyn's base is entirely 'tankies' and Sanders is the most left candidate ever seen.
Your 'point' about their ideological coherence says more about you than anyone else.
I thought that we didn't do political stuff on HN? Is it ok because it's attacking the left?
I don't even know what to say here. Claiming that people aren't attacked vigorously by right wing Israelis and their surrogates after someone has criticized Israel is absurd. Corbyn was always going to face something like this.
Antisemitism is coming from the right. The establishment will side with them over any anti-capitalist left.
Are you weasel-wording strawmen? Maybe, don't do that?
First, who are "all those Jews"? This is handwaving to make it sound like multitudes.
Second, people worrying about anti-semitism in the Labour party in general, either lack common sense (if we accept your argument that is "this attitude" I wrote about above that is their concern), or conflate anti-semitism (as in Hitler, Nazis, pogroms, and co) with criticism of actions by the state of Israel.
In fact, actual jews in favor of Corbyn and the party have been accused of "anti-semitism" (!) - like the Jewish Voice for Labour (jewish members of the UK Labour Party, because they are nonetheless critical about the situation with Palestine).
> The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't?
One of the charges against Corbyn is that he co-hosted a talk in 2010 in which a Jewish holocaust survivor compared Israel's practices with those of Nazi Germany. I mean, can it get more ridiculous than that? You're accused of being an anti-semite because you allowed a Jewish holocaust survivor to criticise Israel?
>but, to be factual, anti-semitism in the UK Labour Party has been a thing since the 20th century
Anti semitism is a thing in society at large. It's bigger than it is in society in the Conservative Party. It's smaller than it is in society at large in the Labour party, but not entirely non-existent.
The reason it became such an "issue" with Corbyn was about Israel attempting to shield itself from Corbyn's criticism (e.g. land expansion, abuse of palestinians, highly racist policies) and because others found it useful to jump on Israel's bandwagon. It's not because it was common. It wasn't.
Tom Watson (deputy leader, never a corbyn fan) was one of those people.
Isaac Herzog, then leader of the Israeli Labour party, is famous for declaring that "race mixing is a tragedy" and refusing to apologize for it. This is who the concerned "anti racists" allied themselves with - an Israeli obsessed with racial purity: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/isaac-herzogs-remarks-...
The hypocrisy and pearl clutching on this issue was absolutely staggering - especially by the guardian. The fact that something like this can be used to take down an honest politician in this way gives us a terrifying glimpse into the future.
Nearly all of the statements and actions in issue with Corbyn have nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. 99.9999% politicians manage to avoid antisemitic murals and endorsing antisemitic books just fine.
It's not remotely difficult, and I'm sure 99.999999% of Labour Leftists with nigh-identical positions would not be so compromised. Can't understand why the Labour Left had to (politically) die on that hill.
This is quite shoddy journalism. Does the author present any evidence for any recent antisemitism? Not at all. Tweets here and there, images that can interpreted a number of ways. I find myself in the odd position of defending Corbyn, someone who I disagree with on most issues. It's absolutely clear to me that Corbyn is not antisemitic but merely a critic of certain actions of Israel the modern nation.
Furthermore I haven't seen any evidence of antisemitism in the UK in my lifetime. Canaries in the coalmine? Rubbish.
All correct. It’s a real shame because there was a more subtly disconcerting thing where if you look at the Jewish groups Corbyn did spend time with, and compare them to the few Jewish leaders who supported the antisemitism claims … you start to see a picture of what you have to think to be accepted into the halls of government as a Jewish person. It’s disconcerting.
This 2 minute web search is flawed. You don’t disprove a smear by a short web search. If there truly is a smear this smear will be included in the results, so your data is biased and proves nothing.
My short web search found a secondary source[1] which debunks some of the claims you have mentioned here by offering a little more context around them. The Wikipedia page about Jeremy Corbyn has a whole section devoted to this[2] and all the claims are either vague or unsubstantiated.
Now I don’t personally know whether Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite (he might very well be), but there is nothing which he has done which indicates for any amount of certainty that he is. The campaign to smear him as one has most certainly succeeded, and his support for Palestine probably in no small is to blame for this.
Because Labour is looking like such an election winning machine right now:
'Louise Ellman quits Labour party with fierce attack on Corbyn
...the Jewish MP attacked the Labour leader’s record on antisemitism, saying: “Under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, antisemitism has become mainstream in the Labour party. Jewish members have been bullied, abused and driven out. Antisemites have felt comfortable and vile conspiracy theories have been propagated. A party that permits anti-Jewish racism to flourish cannot be called anti-racist.”
She added: “The overwhelming majority of the Jewish community is fearful of what a Corbyn government might mean for Britain’s Jews. I share those concerns. But this issue is not simply about the Jewish community. This is about the nature of our society. Jeremy Corbyn’s seeming tolerance of antisemitism would embolden racists, poison our public debate and damage the social cohesion of our country.'
Mo, the facts say that Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem.
There has been absolutely no evidence provided by any source to prove institutional anti-semitism.
There is really no evidence at all that stands up to even the most basic common sense assessment.
For example - if Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's been remarkably quiet about it. In fact he has somehow managed to stay friends with various Jewish individuals and organisations in spite of his alleged burning hatred for them. Perhaps someone should let them know?
If you compare Labour's record of "anti-semitism" with the many easy-to-find examples of outright unapologetic racism of the British (and US) Right, there's no comparison.
There have however been public statements by Israeli diplomats explaining that "anti-semitism" is used in a calculated and cynical way to undermine politicians who do not support Israeli nationalism. And also evidence of Israeli influencers working to "take down" - their words - British MPs.
Meanwhile the Labour MPs making the most noise about anti-semitism also happen to be the old Blairites who were horrified when Corbyn was elected leader.
As you say - let's try not to just believe everything we read on this topic, ok?
> Labour party antisemitism goes way beyond criticism of isreal, including support for hezbollah and hamas.
corbyn famously laid a wreath on the grave of a hamas fighter[1]. an interpretation - more in line with how corbyn has historically treated war and violence - reads:
> "They insist Jeremy Corbyn was at the service to commemorate the Palestinians who were killed in an Israeli airstrike in 1985"
i'll leave "support for palastine is equivalent to antisemitism" argument to the side here, needless to say i don't think i'm unique in thinking that this isn't the case.
> Jeremy Corbyn faces fury after praising ‘brilliant’ book which claims Jews control world banks
if this is in reference to the hobson book foreword, then, this would be very similar in nature to calling me misogynistic for recommending the 1st edition K&R C book, because it presumes the programmer is a man.
the book in question, Imperialism, is a treatise on how capatilism causes imperialism. which does sound like something corbyn would be interested in. i implore you to read it and tell me how antisemitic it is.
> Corbyn also backed the artist behind the mural clearly depicting evil jews controlling the world like a board game:
look at the damn mural![2] where is the antisemitic message? it's literally called "freedom for humanity". it seems clear to me that this is a complaint on the power the rich have over the rest of us.
every single one of the threads i've ended up going down over years has always been a variation on: corbyn, or the labour party, is decried as antisemitic for something. this "something" is rarely made clear or obvious when it gets media coverage. surface level investigation makes claims of antisemitism look not particularly strong.
in the meantime, i need to learn advanced memory keeping techniques to keep track of conservative government scandals from the last 6 months.
> The excusing away of this behaviour on HN is crazy, it's not just about isreal. Not by a long shot.
if corbyn is antisemitic, then let me be clear: fuck him. it would be at odds though with his otherwise radical socialist and humanitarian track record: views on which he has been remarkably consistent on for the majority of his political career. somehow, even today.
the only thing that seems crazy to me is just how effective the campaign against him was.
Look, I don't really wanna get bogged down in Tory-Labour, Republican-Democrat, "is being opposed to certain issues and members of the Irsaeli government anti-Semitic" conversation. I really don't. But as a US citizen who follows US news closely and world news incidentally, I'm aware this is an entire topic of discussion. I expected it to be a section of Corbyn's page- and it was- but there's a whole Wikipedia article about it, so you can judge for yourself.
My personal read is, it ain't much different from some stuff in US politics. A bit of horseshoe theory stuff, not that I buy into that at large. But on the right you have politicians making alliances with neo-Nazis, on the left you have fervently pro-Palestine politicians. Both sides are or can be partially motivated by xenophobia, neither side is immune to having a theoretically defensible view possibly motivated by actual prejudice. I myself have been called an anti-Semite over disagreements that I believe to have little to do with religion and much to do with the actions of government agents. So it goes.
Face it, Corbyn and the Labour Party do have a massive issue with antisemitism (as do wide parts of the European left in general, with the notable exception of us Germans because of our shameful national history).
A smear campaign can only be really effective if there is a solid truth behind it.
Saying so does not make you a bigot or an anti semite. Israel and it's defenders hide behind these kind of statements and they're nonsense. Labour if elected would not have given Israel such an easy ride and they throw a lot of money around -- thus, Corbyn is an anti-semite and labour has 'issues' around Jews, and surprise surprise; the tories got in and are happy to sell them lots of nice missiles and intelligence.
It's bullshit. They just have ethics. I Would feel the exact same way if it was Christians or Hindus or whatever in charge of Israel and behaving like this; where is the defence then? Criticise us and you're anti-christian? Doesn't have the same ring to it does it?
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