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> - If I keep the stock, and borrow against it, I pay no taxes, but I do pay finance fees (e.g. interest). The finance fees work out to less than taxes.

I'm not following the whole lifecycle. You borrow against your stock, spend that money, and then repay the loan using stock? Without having technically sold the stock?



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> someone else unknowingly gives you a stock for free and then you sell it

Lends it for a fee, right?


>why would you lend you stock so somebody else can make money out of it?

You think it's going up, so you keep it. They think it's going down, so they borrow it from you and sell it.

They'll return it eventually, so you don't care - you don't need it right now.


> Business Loans used for stock buy-backs, so executives could pay themselves a nice bonus. Can some of these businesses really pay back those loans?

That’s not a thing. The debt taken on for a stock buyback would depress the stock price as much as the purchase would increase the price.


> You borrow against your stock, spend that money, and then repay the loan using stock? Without having technically sold the stock?

I know Ken Lay did that exact chain of events a lot to cash money out of Enron before it's bankruptcy.


> If person A borrows a stock from person B then sells it to person C, they can borrow the stock back from person C and sell it again. No naked short involved.

Naive question: Why would that ever happen? Wouldn't this scenario just cost person C commissions with no opportunity for gain?


I assume they borrow against the after-tax value of the stock, because it will be taxed before being paid back(?) I don't know if that is significant, but I figure it's worth noting.

> at least at rates less than the applicable capital gains tax

So if you don't sell the stock and thus have no applicable capital gains tax, then you can be loaned NaN dollars?


> If instead my money is “borrowed” without my concent for some nefarious activity

You give stock borrow consent when you sign up for a brokerage account. It’s also trivial to turn off, though there isn’t an informed reason for non-activist investors to do this. Some brokers share stock loan income with the account holder, though most keep it from retail accounts.


>Banks give practically cash loans against your stock.

This is how taxes are not paid. No income, no tax. No realized capital gains, no tax.

Propublica recently went into detail on this.


Also, if you borrow against a stock as collateral, that loan will come due eventually. Don’t you have to sell something to pay that money back?

> That asset has associated risk vs cash that for the most part doesn't.

Yes, that's why when you accept to lend your stocks, you will receive interests in exchange.


> $8T borrowed ... for stock repurchases

Aren't stock repurchases funded by cash on hand, like Apple does?


> What if the lender decided to sell the stocks that he had lent out?

The answer depends on the agreement between the lender and the borrower.

Suppose that I loan you my car and then decide to sell it. One possibility is that my agreement with you doesn't let me sell it (or forces me to come up with another car for you if I do). Another possibility is that my agreement with you says that the loan to you ends if I decide to sell.

Short selling is a form of borrowing. The only odd thing is that the thing that you have to repay isn't cash.

Consider a mortgage. The borrower rarely has enough money to cover the whole loan when it is taken out. Instead, the borrower hopes to have enough money to cover each payment as it occurs.


Can you explain what this means? What does borrow against your stock mean

> The 'A shorts to B who shorts to C' type arrangement is unlikely in the extreme. Would B keep paying A for the borrow (and have the collateral tied up) if they have passed the stock to C? Nope, they'd return it...

I think you might've misunderstood the explanation. In Matt Levine's example, A lends to C, who sells to D, who lends to E, who sells to F. B can't just return the shares to A because they've sold them, and they aren't just going buy them back because the whole point is that they want to be short.


Forgive the oversimplification, but you borrow from someone who owns the stock. They lend it because they collect fees/interest when you borrow it.

You don't repay the loan using stock. You repay it with cash from other sources (possibly thrown off by the new investment) or you keep the loan open and continue to pay interest on it.

> But borrowing to do stock bybacks when you don't have a stockpile is just skating further out onto thinner and thinner ice.

this also partly depends on your expectation on the availability to resell the stocks later on if desired


Thanks!

One question: Who do you borrow the stock from? Why do they agree to lend it?

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