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What's interesting is that Do Kwon(the founder) blatantly insulted the researcher at the time.. don't have the link but google it, it's on twitter


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It gets worse.. they've also attacked any researcher who has asked questions about their methodology, ethics, and data. I know because I was one of them. Very shady and toxic group.

I think the root of the problem can be traced back to the researcher's erroneous claim that "This was not human research".

Not to mention the part where he engaged the researchers boss who was completely not a part of this research.

Related. Others?

Crowdfunding a defense for scientific research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37393502 - Sept 2023 (47 comments)

Is it defamation to point out scientific research fraud? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37152030 - Aug 2023 (13 comments)

Harvard professor Francesca Gino was accused of faking data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36968670 - Aug 2023 (146 comments)

Fabricated data in research about honesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36907829 - July 2023 (46 comments)

Fraudulent data raise questions about superstar honesty researcher (2021) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36726485 - July 2023 (33 comments)

UCLA professor refuses to cover for Dan Ariely in issue of data provenance - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36684242 - July 2023 (131 comments)

Harvard ethics professor allegedly fabricated multiple studies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36665247 - July 2023 (215 comments)

Harvard dishonesty expert accused of dishonesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424090 - June 2023 (201 comments)

Data Falsificada (Part 1): “Clusterfake” – Data Colada - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374255 - June 2023 (7 comments)

Noted study in psychology fails to replicate, crumbles with evidence of fraud - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28264097 - Aug 2021 (102 comments)

A Big Study About Honesty Turns Out to Be Based on Fake Data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28257860 - Aug 2021 (90 comments)

Evidence of fraud in an influential field experiment about dishonesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210642 - Aug 2021 (51 comments)


I was more ambivalent about their "research" until I read that "clarification." It's weaselly bullshit.

>> The work taints the relationship between academia and industry

> We are very sorry to hear this concern. This is really not what we expected, and we strongly believe it is caused by misunderstandings

Yeah, misunderstandings by the university that anyone, ever, in any line of endeavor would be happy to be purposely fucked with as long as the perpetrator eventually claims it's for a good cause. In this case the cause isn't even good, they're proving the jaw-droppingly obvious.


What really happened (to the best of my understanding):

- Researchers submitted paper to IEEE.

- Researcher twitter about it.

- Tweet was deleted, because people pointed out it was bad humans subject researcher. (consent and deception)

- Other researchers not from UNM, filled complaints to IEEE.

- Researcher mislead (so far seems like) IRB, arguably IRB failed to do a job and just rubber stamped human subject research exemption, after research was conducted ...

- Paper got accepted to IEEE.

- Researchers push more patches to Linux kernel.

- Plonk email from Greg.

- UNM response latter indirectly blaming only researchers but not IRB.

- Paper get retracted from IEEE

- IEEE Response letter.

- We are here.


Agreed. You've have quite a list of arguments defending the researcher when only his track record should have been enough to prove his good will. Despite the landslide of evidence of good will, Facebook decided to act in bad faith. Unacceptable, I hope other researchers read and remember this story.

Here is a much longer writeup of the situation.

https://www.science.org/content/article/this-scientist-accus...


I'm not sure this is true. Normally I'd be inclined to agree with you, but the Timnit situation was handled badly.

Objectively, there was nothing wrong with her paper.

You may have a point about the other researchers. I'm not familiar enough with their situations. But I dug into Timnit's pretty thoroughly.

Their recent behavior isn't too encouraging either: https://archive.md/7jCQY

(Related Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/jackclarkSF/status/1451273190974660612)

Hopefully everyone will just chill out and focus on research.


Which scientists were putting their careers on the line by posting 9 second clips on twitter?

I'm super curious about this list of people who threatened their careers by attempting to replicate a non-peer-reviewed paper for the sake of reviewing the science.


A fried of mine reported scientific misconduct (p-hacking) and, together with a few colleagues, left the research group, due to moral harassment by the head of that group.

The university removed all of them from the research group and said they could continue working on the data because it belongs to the university.

3 months later:

- investigations of scientific fraud against the people leaving (neglecting authorship because the data could after all not be used and the head wanted a say in the articles, i.e., change them completely). Also some random other allegations that didn't stick.

- police investigation of defamation (because they reported the scientific misconduct and some other misleading statements used by the head in sales for a research-related product)

- the university now expects them to contact the head of the ex-research group to clarify questions of authorship

- the head meanwhile continues as before


Interestingly, the Sokal Squared guy got banned from future research for "unauthorized human experimentation".

It's a different university, but I wonder if these people will see the same result.


Especially when Daszak himself had warned that the research was risky, in 2015 and Nov 2019.

https://twitter.com/__ice9/status/1344832354100125699


If somebody with a colossal vested interest makes an angry tweet that also happens to point out the study author made basic errors (that's what this is about: the author of the study likely made invalidating errors; no amount of changing assumptions is going to fix that).

Previous threads in this saga (and some related ones). Others?

I’m so sorry for psychology’s loss, whatever it is - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37315292 - Aug 2023 (94 comments)

Is it defamation to point out scientific research fraud? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37152030 - Aug 2023 (13 comments)

Harvard professor Francesca Gino was accused of faking data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36968670 - Aug 2023 (146 comments)

Fabricated data in research about honesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36907829 - July 2023 (46 comments)

Fraudulent data raise questions about superstar honesty researcher (2021) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36726485 - July 2023 (33 comments)

UCLA professor refuses to cover for Dan Ariely in issue of data provenance - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36684242 - July 2023 (131 comments)

Harvard ethics professor allegedly fabricated multiple studies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36665247 - July 2023 (215 comments)

Harvard dishonesty expert accused of dishonesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424090 - June 2023 (201 comments)

Data Falsificada (Part 1): “Clusterfake” – Data Colada - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374255 - June 2023 (7 comments)

Noted study in psychology fails to replicate, crumbles with evidence of fraud - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28264097 - Aug 2021 (102 comments)

A Big Study About Honesty Turns Out to Be Based on Fake Data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28257860 - Aug 2021 (90 comments)

Evidence of fraud in an influential field experiment about dishonesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210642 - Aug 2021 (51 comments)


WTF? They are experimenting with people without their consent? And they haven't been kicked out of the academic community????

> fired a bunch of people for publishing research about the harms of AI

That paper was activism dressed up as science. It even tried to coin a derogatory term for language models. The authors were full of vitriol on forums against many respected researchers. After calling them out on their perceived ethical problems, they refused to have a dialogue in order not to "offer a platform" to their opponents. Never seen anything like it in 10 years of following the field. It was so sad to see people trying to have a sincere talk and being shut down.

If there is any good outcome from that scandal is that now papers devote 50% of their length to harm analysis. A bunch of better papers on harm reduction came out in the last year. The authors of the scandal paper moved on to exploit their new gained notoriety, so it wasn't necessarily a bad career step for them.


earlier in the week, someone posted that the person who posted the paper early is someone who wanted to fund the project, but the researchers didn't want to include him. So he took as much data as he could collect and posted it publicly with the addition of his name. He is not a researcher or scientist for the team.

It's the same in Korea where the research originated.

A bunch of professors belonging to a hastily formed academic committee are trying to monopolize the public debate, quibbling about errors in the arxiv paper and demanding that Lee & Kim turn over samples of LK-99 because the big-name professors are obviously too busy to make their own. It seems that their first priority is to avoid a repeat of the Hwang scandal than to touch any novel research.

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