> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
I don't care about changing switches. I don't care about DIY. While I'm perfectly capable, I don't want to spend time on that. I want something works well, and equipped with a well known 2.4GHz receiver which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.
I need to do my daily work with it. Not fiddle with keys, caps, boards, firmware and soldering iron.
I'll be seriously considering this. If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
Why is the mechanical keyboard community so elitist? I don't have time to research a keyboard made by some mom and pop keyboard operation when I already know it won't work (easily if at all) with my setup.
With Logitech's unifying receiver, I can have a completely wireless setup with a single keyboard and two mice (two different kinds that I switch between for wrist health and comfort) that I can seamlessly use with my work computer and home computer and the same monitor. So no wires, one monitor, one keyboard and mice setup, and two computers (of different OSs) that I switch between with a simple keyboard shortcut.
I'm not into the mechanical keyboard world because I value ergonomics and silence over nerding out over an overly clacky keyboard, but since this keyboard uses Logitech's unifying receiver, it has value. (Edit: well, it looks like this doesn't use the existing unifying receiver, which is definitely a valid complaint.)
The issues with the unifying receiver and interference are not specific to the receiver. As far as I understand, it's interference from USB 3.x ports that affects any 2.5 GHz wireless receiver.
> Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
I'm using a buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies mechanical keyboard that plugs into my USB port[0]. It doesn't need to be charged, won't die on me in the middle of typing, doesn't interfere with any of my Bluetooth / wireless spectrum. It's perfect for someone who's no-fuss.
> I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
I agree. For this price you could buy a great keyboard from Vortex with swap able keys .. which click the way you like it.
> someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out there.
honestly I was into mechanical keyboards for a while, I put together a few kits, I bought into group buys on individual hand-crafted keys, group buys on keysets, and bought a HHKB to try topre switches. After a while I just stopped, because the scene is incredibly disorganized and constantly shifting (e.g., I was into mechanical keyboards for a year or two and /r/budgetkeebs didn't even exist, but lots of my friends still know me as the keyboard enthusiast guy so they always ask me where to get a keyboard). The barrier to entry is very substantial. There are a lot of people who would like a nicer keyboard who don't want to have to deal with that nonsense.
Take that whole concept, and now think about webcams. People have money to burn and spent a lot of time on video chat because of Covid. How many people sat around and did hours and hours of research to buy the perfect webcam? How many people heard the Logitech 1080p webcam (the C920x I think?) was pretty good, bought it, plugged it in, had a good product and literally never thought about it again? I'm willing to bet that second group is easily ten times as large as the first group. And alllllllll those people see "Logitech" and all they think is "it's a peripheral that will probably work well that I don't have to think about". That's an enormous market.
anyway I can't figure out if the MX means the switches have Cherry MX stems or not, which is annoying. Not something I would buy, but definitely a frustratingly underserved market segment.
This is my issue. I really want a mechanical keyboard, but the amount of choice is insane, and the price difference between different ones are insane.
Sadly these days it's hard to separate fact from fiction when it comes to products.
All of this, and I have very basic requirements too (at least I think so). 70% keyboard layout, needs to be somewhat quiet, and I don't really want to pay an arm and a leg. Is there not a website where I can filter from many different keyboards so I can short-list what suits me best? I've not found any. The only places where I've been able to find quality information are Reddit and other similar communities, but they contain a barage of information and it's hard to find anything useful.
edit: I'd really like to not have to build it myself.
While better than a rubber dome keyboard for sure, I think I'm one of the few people out there that prefers the Cherry MX switches over the oldschool buckling spring.
MX Browns with the o-ring mod (as to not disturb my office mates) is a dream to type on.
> Not saying it will be for you, but discarding mechanical keyboards on base of what the pre-built market offers is not the best measure of things.
What about buying a single $25 off-brand keyboard with off-brand cherry MX keys and liking it well enough that I can't justify even considering a new keyboard with different switches that I might like more?
> Despite my initial impressions, I really like the keyboard.
Have only tried typing a few lines in store and I also enjoyed it, but might be personal preference: use keyboard with Cherry MX Brown at home and got used to light/low-force actuation.
More so than a membrane keyboard after 10 years? I would say the opposite, mechanical keyboards are easier to fix, and have resale value. I just bought a second-hand Ergodox as my first mechanical keyboard, it cost a bit more than my previous membrane one, but looks sturdier, and easier to fix with removable switches and keycaps.
> Absolute load of w**, designed to suck dollars out of nerds.
As a nerd, a scientist and an Engineer, I appreciate having options. Not a single device will fit everyone, and I would likely disagree with you on what is the best keyboard. And I spend a lot of time typing, so I find it important enough.
As someone quite new to all of this, I appreciate comprehensive guides being written on the topic.
> If you shared a lab with 30 people banging on Model Ms you'd agree.
What if you shared a lab with 30 Selectric typewriters or couple line printers? I did. People complaining about the "noise" from Cherry clears and similar are over-reacting.
> you just like them
I do! And you don't! and guess who's keyboard it is? This is why I'm testy. People like different things. When that happens: mind your own business and cope.
It's no more inconvenient for you to hear my (not that loud) "silent" cherry clears than for you to impose on me to have to type on a keyboard that doesn't work for me.
And we can all agree that the guy that cooks fish in the microwave is our shared enemy.
If you want a standard keyboard with a standard layout or something similar, a cheap rubber dome keyboard is going to work just as well as my $600 keyboard. If that's the type of keyboard you want, the reason people like them is because they think they sound nicer, feel nicer, and in many cases look nicer. They also have better built quality and people appreciate well-built things.
However, there are also situations where people are getting tangible benefits from mechanical keyboards. Some people don't have much desk space, so you can get a smaller keyboard and save room. It also makes them more portable if you feel like taking it with you.
Another tangible benefit is programmability and the use of layers. Some people work faster and more efficiently with a smaller keyboard with multiple layers. Another reason to use layers is for different use cases. I can have one layer programmed with a bunch of hotkeys for Photoshop, another layer for just normal typing/computer use, and another layer setup for gaming.
Another thing to consider is ergonomics. I 3d printed a case for a Dactyl Manuform and hand-wired my own customized, split ergonomic keyboard. After switching to it, the tendonitis in my wrist cleared up.
So, there is value to be found. However a lot of the people that want mechanical keyboards just want something that feels like it is a quality device. If that's what you're looking for, you can get something that will likely be the nicest keyboard you've ever used for $200 or less. Once you get to the $500+ mark for an entire build, you are venturing into the territory where its more of a fashion accessory. People want cases made by certain designers and while in some cases they have better features or are machined to a higher standard, you quickly run into diminishing returns.
IMO if someone wants to get into mechanical keyboards, its hard to beat the standard model of GMMK keyboards for the price. You can get it for $60 without switches or keycaps. At that point pay $30-40 for Box Jade switches if you like clicky switches, $70-100 for zeal helios switches if you like smooth linear switches, or $50 for aliaz 70g tactile switches if you like MX browns. After that spend $30-50 on a cheap but decent PBT keycap set. Finally, do about 10 minutes worth of simple modifications to the keyboard and you'll end up with something that gets you 95% of the value you'd get out of a $2000 keyboard at 1/10th of the price.
> Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from reputable brands with respectable components for far less than this logitech keyboard is being sold.
From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and most of their products sell for $50 less.
You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google searches would lead you to established products which are both cheaper and better.
> Ugh light gray keyboard is ugly if the rest of your computer hardware isn't in light gray (which is common these days).
I think it looks pretty good but I have the version with blank keycaps which I use on a white desk so I think it fits in pretty well.
> Just the price at 220 USD seems... expensive.
It is unfortunately expensive. This is mostly due to the switches since it uses electrostatic capacitive Topre switches[1] and not Cherry MX-style switches which are otherwise very common in keyboards nowadays.
> How noisy are these switches?
The stock version is fairly noisy but nowhere near as noisy as say Cherry MX Blue or buckling spring switches. It really depends on what the keyboard is on though since the stock feet are pretty bad which means the sound can get amplified by the table that it's on (many people put some shelf liner under it).
There is a quieter Type-S version that's more expensive but you can achieve the same affect by modifying the stock version.
> Also, what's up with keyboard not supporting USB 3?
The HHKB Pro 2 was introduced in 2006, two years before the USB 3.0 specification had been completed. A Pro 3 version has yet to be announced but they did release a Bluetooth version two years ago.
> Enthusiasts will see the non-standard switches and lack of hotswap, and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will bounce off.
> Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech option.
If you find yourself in this bucket, check out Keychron. They make mechanical and optical hot swappable keyboards that are amazingly durable, multi-device, multi-platform, and cheap. The only bother you (sometimes) have to put up with is batch ordering.
Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
I don't care about changing switches. I don't care about DIY. While I'm perfectly capable, I don't want to spend time on that. I want something works well, and equipped with a well known 2.4GHz receiver which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.
I need to do my daily work with it. Not fiddle with keys, caps, boards, firmware and soldering iron.
I'll be seriously considering this. If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
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