But that is now. I'm talking about how it used to be. Look at the GP. Here's what I'm responding to:
> People in their 20s having their own digs is, I think, a decidedly American phenomenon. In most of the poorer parts of the world (including, for example, Central and Eastern Europe), 30+ years ago younger crowd managed to have sex just fine, using dorm rooms, snatching time while parents were away, etc.
I think them not having their own digs is much more an American phenomenon, at least recently. Though houses have gotten ridiculously expensive in a lot of countries. Still, back when I was in my 20s, it was quite common in Europe for people to at least rent their own place, and possibly even buy a small apartment. I've got an entire branch of my family where everybody married at 21 and moved out at that age. In my parents' time, it was not much different, though they did live in my grandparents' massive house briefly after their marriage, and bought their first home when they were 34. But it was definitely common for people to move out of their parents' home when they got married. Once going to university got more common, that became the time they moved out.
>> In other parts of the world it's abnormal for adults in their 20s to be living anywhere but with their parents, often even with a fiance or new spouse in the mix.
The difference is the prudishness of US culture. Those couples are living life as a couple. In a US household they would be treated as kids, with many parents not allowing them to even share a room.
I feel like the phenomenon of people in their twenties living with their parents should only be attributed to deep cultural currents after we're 100% sure that it's not the exploding cost of housing in the most productive, well-paying metropolitan areas (which also happen to be the most fun places for a young adult to live).
You can't generalize that, or we'd see vastly different outcomes in 'adults' over things like... country or urban/rural.
From my understanding it's simply a lot owed to culture. When I was in my early twenties, Americans tended to buy a house (with the attached mortgage) much more likely because it's a thing you do. In comparison here in Germany, NOBODY (except with very rich parents) would get or even buy a house. Also no one would give you the money for the mortgage in the first place. (Compounded by the fact that we'd typically finish university later than Americans would have their master's, don't even talk about a Bachelor's). Especially in the city, living with your parents until after uni (so around 25-28) was completely normal. Exceptions like going to a different city and getting an apartment notwithstanding.
It's a little bit different. In most cases for US and Europe, it is because of the high cost of housing and rent. I know a lot of friends who saved up a lot of money by living with parents from the ages of 21-30. I believe most want to stay with parents and save up until marriage.
Isn't it common in countries outside of the US for the younger generation to stay in the same home as the older generation? Perhaps this 20-something phenomenon is just a sign that Americans are becoming more established in their communities and closer to the world norm.
I don't think that is representative of most American families. Most of the time, it is the kid who wants to leave their parents house to be independent rather than the other way around.
I stayed in my house one year after I turned 18, and it was a huge mistake, especially since I was commuting almost 2 hours a day to university, but also...well, rent wasn't that high back then...I found a room for $215/month near UW in 1994.
These days I don't think that value proposition exists anymore.
Yea, but the acceptability of adult children living at home with their parents has really changed since when I grew up. We were pretty much all kicked out at 18 to go live on our own. That was just what we did in the USA. Some had a little financial support from parents--maybe the parents paid for car insurance or gas or something. But never the rent-free home for 10-15 years like we see today. The culture has changed massively. My old man would have never accepted me living at home after high school, but I look at my kid and think, well, she'll really struggle to afford rent, and she'll never own her own home, so I guess we have no choice.
A job -- sure. But a common situation in cities would be for a 20-something to live with their parents until (and sometimes after) they got married due to the very limited housing. When I came to the US in my mid-20s I was absolutely stunned that it was possible for someone working an unskilled job (which is what I did for my first year) to rent a small apartment of one's own (in a sketchy part of the town, sure) and invite whoever I please whenever I want.
> The idea that an 18 year old would start their own household is an artifact from a small period in our history when 18 year olds could easily get an unskilled job that would afford a decent modest lifestyle.
I think this is the root of a lot of people's frustrations around housing, and adulthood. For most our history it was expected that you would have multiple generations sharing a household. The idea that you move out of your family's house the second you turn 18 or finish college is a relatively new idea. As parent commenter points out, this was really only the norm for two generations, suggesting that that, and not our current situation, is the historical outlier.
Living with your family for a while allows you to save money and help your parents out after they spent the better part of two decades raising you.
While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally.
In my experience (talking to people from a variety of countries), most couples in their 20s/30s want their own place (even in the countries where it's not common). It seems it can even lead to happier intergenerational relationships when the roomate-type fights don't need to happen.
It would seem to me that it's most common in the US to move out because they can afford to... The US is just an incredibly rich place, even compared to much of western Europe (ex. the US has 40% more GDP per capita than France[1])
There are of course also family/social pressures in some places, but I really don't think it's the primary factor in the differences between many countries.
> It doesn't seem nearly as bad as the "live with your parents" advice.
What's wrong with that advice? It's an American thing that kids need to move out on their own at 18. My wife's culture sees that as rather harsh. She lived at home until 28, when at 27 she married. Her older sister lived at home, sharing a room with their younger sister, until she was 25 (I think), when she finally married and moved out for the first time. Her husband lived at home with his parents in a small room until he got married as well.
I was the odd one out, being American, and living on my own.
The entire family support structure is there. Living at home has many benefits. They were able to go to school, focus on their education, and their career early on without having to worry about paying lots of bills and taking care of their own house.
You'd think they wouldn't be ready for the real world, but you'd be wrong. In my brother-in-laws case, he had bought a house at about 20, and rented it out. This was done with his money, that he had saved, because his parents paid for everything (with some fun and interesting conditions along the way). But the house was bought, and rented for many years before they moved in after being married.
My wife and I benefit equally in many other ways from this close knit family life. We have day-care providers next door: family we can trust. Family is close, and we get the benefits that entail.
Sure, their are downsides, but overall, it's made me realize how harsh the "American" view of an 18-year-old's responsibilities are. If anything, it does less to support them in the long run.
No, living with your parents isn't bad. My wife has cousins in their 30's that are still living with their parents, preparing for marriage. A couple are preparing to move out, as they haven't married yet.
It's a different culture, for sure. But it's not as bad as it seems. I thought it was odd when I first saw it first hand, but after years of seeing the results, I can't help but think that throwing kids out at 18 is by far the weirder approach.
> I mean, he's advocating all this extreme frugality as a way to afford camera gear, right?
No. He's advocating all these ideas as methods you can use to obtain the things you really want.
> I mean, he's advocating all this extreme frugality as a way to afford camera gear, right?
Demographic change might be part of this. I told my wife (who is NOT American) that my plan was that our kid will be either paying us rent or out of the house after turning 18. She was horrified, coming from a culture where children kind of stick around their parent's homes well into adulthood. This behavior might be totally acceptable depending on the household.
I strongly doubt that. It was quite common in western Europe too. My parents got married in 1970 and did briefly live with my grandparents (who had a gigantic house that was still dirt cheap when they got married directly after WW2), but moved out soon after that.
As far as I know, people moved out either when they married, or when they went to a university in a different city. Around 1990 I knew one guy who had a job and still lived with his parents, and I thought that was odd (he spent all his money on fancy audiophile equipment).
U.S. is a different story. On the other side of the pond, things look differently. I know of just one person in his late 20's living with his mom, but this is a recent development in his life(used to live abroad, moved back and needed a place to stay). Otherwise he left the nest pretty much when he was 18.
is the american "i need to move out of my parents house by 18 or i will forever be labelled "living in my mom's basement"? kind of ideology that is forcing people to rent rather than just stay at their parents house?
i wonder how many societies around the world practice this phenomenon ?
As many people have already said, the article seems to jump to a conclusion rather quickly.
What the author might not have taken into account is cultural changes in living habits. With that I mean how we are increasingly moving away from our parents home, and into our own little cell/room/apartment, instead of living with the parents in the house or in an attached building.
And when people did move out, it would more than often be either because you moved into a dormitory (which previously were more communal) or together with a SO. That means more time spent in the neighbourhood, and more time with the middle ring as it's called in the article.
It could be interesting to compare the situation in america with for example the situation in Italy, where it's more common to stay at the parents for longer.
Even in urban areas it was not uncommon for young adults to live with their parents (and grandparents) until they married, at least up until the end of WWII. Women wouldn't move out because it was considered improper for an unmarried woman to live away from her parents; and men wouldn't move out because they wouldn't have anyone to cook and clean and launder for them, and most didn't have the skills to do this themselves (though some would move to lodgings where a certain amount of this was taken care of for them).
Suburbanization and the increased availability of housing helped change that. But I'd guess the biggest contributor would have been the increasing age at first marriage. Living with your parents until marriage is one thing if you're married by 21, and quite another if you're single at 30 and can afford to move out - which was increasingly the case in the second half of the 20th century.
Of course, now fewer and fewer can afford to move out, even if they're 30+ and unmarried.
> People in their 20s having their own digs is, I think, a decidedly American phenomenon. In most of the poorer parts of the world (including, for example, Central and Eastern Europe), 30+ years ago younger crowd managed to have sex just fine, using dorm rooms, snatching time while parents were away, etc.
I think them not having their own digs is much more an American phenomenon, at least recently. Though houses have gotten ridiculously expensive in a lot of countries. Still, back when I was in my 20s, it was quite common in Europe for people to at least rent their own place, and possibly even buy a small apartment. I've got an entire branch of my family where everybody married at 21 and moved out at that age. In my parents' time, it was not much different, though they did live in my grandparents' massive house briefly after their marriage, and bought their first home when they were 34. But it was definitely common for people to move out of their parents' home when they got married. Once going to university got more common, that became the time they moved out.
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