Because this topic, much like "the technology industry is sexist", has been discussed to death here about 342 times already without any reasonable outcomes.
We're creating an environment now in which it is practically impossible to discuss this topic in tech. Our general irrationality and desire to completely and utterly jump down the throat of anyone who even remotely touches on this topic means that in the future any gender topics are just going to get "no comment" responses.
That's sad and not without a touch of irony precisely because in stifling the discussion we're probably doing more harm than good.
I don't claim to speak for everyone, but discussions like this feel counter-productive because there's nothing to really say, and no amount of text is going to accurately portray another person's experiences. At this point, these posts are effectively just someone standing up and shouting "hey, there's some more sexism over here!" So what? Go confront the people that matter, like the people the original post is targeting. Sure, it's worth sharing so that we remain somewhat up-to-date on what's going on in the industry, but there's not much meaningful discussion to be had.
Every week someone talks about the same thing. I get it but at this point this topic is passing the point of caring into annoyance and soon apathy. It honestly has crossed my mind to just make a quick script to filter anything that has to do with women/minorities/politics even though it's the equivalent of covering my ears and closing my eyes. Articles based on these things have nothing to do scientific progress and quirky/interesting technical concepts which are the main draw for coming here.
Maybe I'll be enlightened? I don't know. Being completely honest I'm having a hard time getting past fact that the article was written by a woman who could instead get a tech job. My wife is a kernel programmer for goodness' sake. Perhaps I'm failing to see something obvious so it would be nice if someone could show me what's wrong with my line of thinking.
A number of these sorts of comments pop up every time something about sexism or racism in tech hits the front page, and all they do is prove the original article's point.
I initially flagged this thread because it looked like a classic flamebait topic.
I unflagged it because it looks like a civil discussion was being had.
However I am sick to death of "Women In Tech" constantly coming up on HN, a while back gender topics would sometimes account every tenth discussion thread with classic left vs right rants and I think most people here have had their fill of this topic.
I think there is a huge population of political activists acting as concern trolls with respect to gender and sexuality topics. You have anti-FGM activists attacking tumblerinas, you have outrage junkies attacking conservatives because of something to do with bathrooms and 0.01% of the population.
None of this is supposed to lead to a healthy discussion, it is a culture war fought exclusively by armies of strawmen (and strawwomen!).
1) Any similar argument about women and another profession would instantly be met with cries of sexism.
2) This is a great example of the types of unsubstantiated mass hysteria that seem to be more and more common. I find it really depressing, not least of which because I can't think of a solution.
The community's lack of courage to even discuss these issues is pretty depressing.
I agree that this topic merits discussion and shouldn't be flagged, but you're just wrong when you say the community lacks the courage to discuss these topics.
edit: Three of the four articles you link in your reply to this post have well over 100 comments each, so you're only supporting my position that the community is very much willing to discuss this topic, and in fact, does so pretty regularly. Any topic that hits the front page over and over again (in this case, discussion regarding TitStare) gets flagged as people get fatigued by the same repetitive discussion. This happened with SOPA, and Snowden and every other issue that reached maximum saturation in the community.
I can understand it looking like a derail. If this were a forum for the specific discussion of women's tech issues, I would never have brought it up, because it would be the wrong place.
What I'm trying to do is not say is "harassment hits everyone really hard, and I find is strange that articles about women being harassed hit the front page disproportionately more than articles about men being harassed."
This is not a commentary on "the real issue," it's a meta commentary. I can't see reason why there's not room for discussion on both within the comment threads.
Yes -- because people go to tech websites and spam entire comment sections with hundreds of comments saying exactly the same thing and telling everyone that they are sexist while intentionally missing the point.
Thank you for replying. Yes, I am aware of the trend. I have been a member for around three years. But I wonder why that is.
There is a fair amount of discussion of things like women in tech and sexual harassment in the work place. I wonder why these types of posts seem to put such a chill in the air and get a reaction of "I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole..." even though other related topics generate quite a bit of serious, mostly respectful discussion.
- Private corporate memos written after feedback was explicitly requested
Probably others.
The same thing was said in every case: "it's not the right forum, it's insensitive and without empathy".
How incredibly surprising that there doesn't seem to be any right forum or right time for expressing opinions about anti-male bias. Somehow it's always offensive and it's always terrible that women were upset.
It looks almost as if some people want to shut that conversation down wherever it happens.
One comment? The only positive one I saw was antirez's at the time I wrote this, and as of now the top comment calls it "scam faux outrage," the reply to which insinuates that this person is not worth listening to on this subject and/or is less experienced because they're a feminist, accusing feminists of "browbeating."
The second comment from the top is your typical "kids these days" trope about snowflakes and says they're "very tired of feminism."
Further down people imply you can't talk to women anymore because you'll be accused of harassment for no reason ("Wouldn't surprise me, in this atmosphere..."), dismissively ask why this needs to be discussed, blame the humanities for killing America with the cult of identity politics, claim all powerful women in tech are frauds, bemoaning this being "another SJW crybaby piece," and finally, above that one, someone who noticed the same thing I did ("As for other comments, I am really annoyed that mostly people come just here to complain that such article exists, and take all the space.") and someone who agrees with them.
Because this website is shit. The opinions here are usually male and white. Anytime a topic about race, gender, etc comes up this website turns into a shithole.
Seriously if you don't believe me go look at any thread that was remotely about race, gender, pay gap, etc etc. The opinions here either turn into victim blaming, saying there is no issue, or actively defending billion dollar companies.
I like the topics that sometimes get posted here, and I certainly learn from some of the comment threads here. But this website turns worse than reddit when it comes to anything controversial.
This forum is majority male tech workers and has been weird (aka reactionary to the dismantling of the patriarchy) since I've been reading it in 2016. I don't know what the cause of the weirdness is though.
I've seen a bunch of these now and frankly I don't see the point. Maybe we should all become Zen Bhuddist monks and subsist off happy thoughts alone lest we accidentally step on an ant and take a life?
I don't know exactly what needs to be done to fix these problems, but I know rants like this do absolutely nothing. You want to see what might make a difference, look at something like this:
http://www.hackingplay.com/carnegie-mellon-study-on-gender-a...
Thanks for the article ! I enjoy reading testimonies about misogyny in science and tech industry as it gives interesting insights on what concrete problems I can address.
As for other comments, I am really annoyed that mostly people come just here to complain that such article exists, and take all the space. Just drop it !
The atmosphere is becoming as bad as reddit regarding misogyny. Can't you just admit you are not interested/don't get it for the moment and go somewhere else ?
I don't think you identified the right reason. Sure, people may be sexist and stuff, but I believe most people here are smart enough to notice their own biases if they are gently pointed at.
However, what probably adds the majority of fuel to the fire is a total lack of discussion around current situation, if the measures that are taken (e.g quotas) are adequate and what are the criteria of their termination (quotas without termination criteria are just discrimination, not an instrument to solve the chicken-and-egg problem of power imbalance). People having to try and have that discussion are actively shut down and while it is effective in short term, in the long term that strategy just breeds more resentment. The message of equal opportunity gets substituted by "50% or it's sexist", and that's what people hear and that's why people upvote the post.
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