An app is only ever going to be an adjunct to a real course taught by a real human. As an adjunct, it works pretty well for teaching vocabulary and practicing in between classes.
I've been learning Chinese for about four years. I use apps, but only to drill and help me improve my reading + vocabulary outside of the in-person classes.
There's nothing like an in-person tutor. (OK, so mine is online, but it's almost the same.) My teacher knows my strong and weak points, and when I get stuck with a certain word or grammar pattern, she makes sure to test it before we move on.
That said, I only have one hour of class per day, and that's not enough to really progress. So I use the apps to jog my memory, learn new words (since everyone will stress different ones), and internalize the grammar.
Besides, a language is a very dynamic and living thing: When you speak it with natives, you'll sometimes be able to rely on sentences you've learned in class. But the real test is whether you can take their new-to-you question, and respond with a new-to-you answer. And that only comes with time and repetition with real instructors -- and with repeated practice with native speakers. And there's no better teacher than a puzzled look on a native's face, telling you that your pronunciation is totally off.
I often say, half jokingly, that my trips to China (where I go 3-5 times a year to teach Python + data science courses) are my end-of-semester exam, when we see if my Chinese has really improved. Without fail, interactions with natives help me to improve.
None of this would happen with just the apps. Yeah, they're great -- but they are far from sufficient.
Not apps, but I've had good results with the old Teach Yourself... book+audio series as well as the Pimsleur audio series. Tried Duolingo for a while and it felt more like a vocabulary course than a language course. Not useless, but it didn't improve my language skills.
I think it is great for vocabulary. But vocabulary is only a part of knowing a language. Apps mostly aim at vocabulary, and while approach is similar I think it is much better to stare at a paper notebook then your smartphone screen.
Apps like Duolingo IMHO try to sell the illusion of learning.
Far more people like the illusion of learning than actual learning, so it makes sense from a business POV, but if you're really dedicated, textbooks + flashcards + immersion will get you farther ahead.
In my view, apps are ok to train vocabulary, but not really to learn the grammar and usage patterns. As such, some languages might lend themselves somewhat better to learn via apps (Malay), while others are less suitable (Russian, Japanese).
I think the problem is that these apps sell themselves as a one-stop shop to learn a language, but they're not. When they're effective, is when you treat them as tools, to target various areas.
It's more like a game than actual learning.... which would be great if it worked. I found myself recognising patterns and subconsciously "cheating" while using that app. Nothing beats full immersion in a language and actual real life teachers.
I moved to Spain a few years ago and Duo Lingo had me thinking I understood loads of things when I really didn't. Not in a real life setting. It is good as a side lesson but not great otherwise at least from my perspective.
When I tried it before, the app felt like flash cards but their actual website included grammar lessons that explained what was going on. Things like the boring old table of verb conjugations that you'd expect in a textbook, which the app tries to teach you more organically.
:) I would like to clarify that I didn't pursue using it for learning, so that's why. I believe the app was probably worth time investment if that's what you are looking for.
Honestly, Duolingo is so bad at teaching people a language that I think the language learning community, on the whole, would be better off without the app in business.
Then again, teaching is not really their goal; rather, they'd sell you a language learning game.
Duolingo is actually a great usecase for AI. It doesn't teach you a language in any meaningful sense, but is a fun side activity to practice. AI is great for apps like these.
Apps have greatly improved my language learning, spaced repetition has been a key for learning vocabulary and it's something that computers are very good at.
Also apps like tandem have made it free, quick and easy to find someone online to practice with.
I used it to quickly get from close to zero to an A1 level - which enabled me to directly take an A2 levels course - instead of getting bored of a too easy one too quickly.
At least it saved me a hundred euros, but it's not a substitute for a real course and real interactions.
But later it talks helped in using more esoteric grammar that I never hear in small talk.
I'd suggest to use the website from time to time as it has some well done explanation to what is grammatically going on (the app is theory free)
I think it's too hopeful to learn the ins and outs of a language through an app alone. As you mentioned, Duolingo is a tool and very rarely does one tool fit all use cases.
I see Duolingo as more of an interactive digital textbook, but as always there is a gap between completing exercises and applying your knowledge to the real world.
Generally app/website courses suck because of conflicting business models. You need to seriously read and understand grammar to learn language and employ spaced repetition memorization. The apps usually do the later not the first one because holding attention span is hard, writing good courses is harder and it's easier to monetize dictionary building than reading material.
Common plan is to pick up a well written book for your language and do flash cards + media/live tutor suppliment.
Currently I'm learning Thai: I have a modern book course (Becker's series) + voice Anki flash cards + some media on youtube or netflix movies (I've tried pimsleurs but it made me fall asleep)
IMO, if you really want to get to a high intermediate or advanced level of proficiency, an app is never going to cut it. Nor are classes. It's worth the up-front effort - and less effort in the long run - to work out your own system.
There are a lot of individual apps and sites that can you can cobble together, and that play a part in a lot of people's personal systems. Spaced repetition is a great idea. But you will want to do it using a DIY-oriented app like Anki, and make your own flashcards. Forvo is a fantastic website and app for working on your pronunciation. For any popular language, YouTube will offer a wealth of channels offering video content (with transcripts) that you can use to get in your listening practice. Reverso is great for pinning down idioms. Just grab whatever grammar book from your local used bookstore (at least for starters - once you've spent a while learning, you'll have a better sense of what you want in a grammar book, and that's the time to pick a specific one and pay full retail price for it.) Once you're able to read a comic book or watch a slow-paced nature documentary in your target language (this is quite attainable within 6 months if you work steadily), get 1:1 tutoring on iTalki. Etc. etc.
The common criticisms about canned courses, at least according to a lot of folks in the recreational language learning community, are:
1. There's a speed limit. In a class, your pace is limited to that of your least motivated classmate. In a freemium app, you're limited by their monetization policy. With Rosetta Stone, you're limited by excessive animation crap in the UI.
2. You're stuck using whatever content someone else thought would be interesting. If it's not so interesting to you, your motivation is going to suffer.
3. You're stuck learning stuff in the order someone else thinks you should learn it. This can just murder your pace if, for example, the order in which your brain wants to pick up grammar rules doesn't exactly match what the course designer thought the right order should be. Which it won't.
4. Apps and courses sink way too much effort into metrics, either in order to assign grades or in order to gamify things or just to control your pacing. This creates a streetlight effect: They teach you what's easiest to drill on with short answer and multiple choice questions, not what's going to best enable you to use the language independently.
As for how a homegrown system should work, there are a lot of books and blog posts on that; I'm disinclined to endorse any one of them because it's better to read several and cobble together your favorite ideas into a system that's all your own than it is to follow just what happened to work for some other person. It's got to be your system that you worked out for yourself because it's got to be something you actually enjoy doing if you're going to have any chance of sticking with it for the long run.
Having taken some French in high school, formally learning grammar and such seemed more useful than what the apps do. Of course, doesn’t make for high entertainment.
I feel the apps only try to sell the idea of learning a language, not the actual ability to do so.
I think it depends what your goal with Duolingo is. I've had great luck using the app as smart flashcards, less so an end-to-end language learning solution.
Besides what the sibling comment said, if all apps are generally not great, it speaks to a basic limitation of app-driven study of languages, at least, that indicates one needs to supplement. My plan was to use duolingo to get to the point that I could start reading French newspapers and watching French TV, which I assumed would add a dimension to my learning experience that I couldn't get from DuoLingo.
After this thread, I plan to move that step up as a check on DuoLingo.
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