The US feels too incompetent to try to manipulate other countries and it feels more like they have a bad culture and they export it to European countries (where kids in half broken and sad schools dream of partying in cool fraternities).
China, on the other hand, sounds perfectly capable and willing of manipulating our society to make it weak and broken, while at the same time forbidding the same content in their land.
I'd argue it even predates tiktok and it could explain why media and politicians are so much worse than 30 years ago.
The other explanation is that we got complacent, and all great empires need generational weakness before collapsing.
False dichotomy. It's not like China would magically start having international hegemony over the media and the internet if the US didn't. Almost the entire world is subject to social media rules and values that are mostly coming from the US, and a pretty specific part of the US too.
The US power isn't waning. TikTok literally is the only Chinese app that even has made it outside of China, because their isolationist nature has essentially made every other product entirely unattractive, while US tech dominates the globe.
Over the long term Friedman has been proven right over and over again. Protectionism doesn't work, and the US doesn't need to piss their pants because there's one app encroaching on their market.
Giving a government with already authoritarian tendencies in the US power over means of communication is completely ridiculous. This is the same tactic the US attempted to use in the 80s/90s to stop competition from Japanese carmakers and it ruined the American car industry for a solid 20 years.
American entrepreneurs can deal with competition from China, regardless of what China does in their domestic market, there's no need to engage in the same tactics as China.
The exact same discussion btw also happened in the 60s when Samuelson predicted that the Soviet Union would overtake the US economically. Literally every generation some other autocratic country temporarily scares the crap out of Americans, then they fail, and yet nobody appears to learn anything from it.
From my non-US perspective, this kind of views that China has somehow done something to disrupt world order look like obvious delusions, and I don't understand why they seem to be believed in America.
Sure, China is authoritarian. But it has always been. And it has never promised otherwise. Maybe some naive neoliberals expected it to become democratic due to some magical thinking that trade brings democracy, but as far as I know this is just Western imagination at work, not anything that China ever vowed to do, so why is China acting coherently with its decades-long policy is suddenly seen in America as some sort of treason?
And then, there is the military aspect... and sure, China is warlike, threatens Taiwan, etc., but is anyone going to seriously defend that the US is less warlike than China? Come on.
The only real explanation seems to be that China has lately been successful in becoming more powerful (the goal of any country) and the US isn't taking that well at all, the rest looks like blatant propaganda.
I don't think it's a zero sum game. Just because country A becomes more powerful doesn't mean country B must be less powerful.
Countries rise in power together all the time.
Look at Asia and Europe in the last couple decades.
Also I think you exaggerate the differences between the West and China. The US these days is by no means a beacon of liberty and fairness. And China is no Taliban-level opressor. Yes, there's quite a lot of poor behaviour on their part but I see it as roughly the same order of magnitude as most non-european countries.
The Chinese people are idealogicially pretty damn similar to the rest of us, that is, they're human.
As for their government, on the global stage they're being far more cooperative and rational than the US is these days, even if they're being pushy in their neighbourhood.
Also, come to think of it, it's the US declaring illegal wars recently with hundreds of thousands dead and you know, causing ISIS. What did China do that compared to that?
For all the criticism that the USA is receiving recently, I am sure the world would be a worse place if China was the most influential country in the world (which they are trying become) instead of the USA.
I don't want to dismiss Chinese influence as a threat to Western values; but we have to keep this in perspective. China is thrice the population of the US and has a comparatively sized (arguably a bit larger, arguably a bit smaller) economy.
We expect their influence to catch up with their size and be comparable with the US government. The US government has long reach and a strong grip (eg, Assange, Snowden, the general pretence that their ongoing aggressive military posture is legitimate, synchronisation of global norms for intellectual property to American interests, Hollywood, etc).
We have no leverage and the global economic system doesn’t care enough. Let’s be real, China is the new world super power. The US is still riding the coattails of prior success.
We’re a confused divided country and China has a brutally efficient system of exploitation the US needs.
We let China get too big without modernizing/democratizing. Massive foreign policy failure by the western world. Now they appear too big to reign in and everyone (except maybe the US) is scared of them and just wants to play nice.
There is a lot of bitterness toward the US in China possibly stemming from their perception that they should be leading the world in every respect, and the irksome reality that for much of the past century or more the US has been at the forefront. Yes that is changing or has already changed now, but they are still very unhappy about having been behind for so long, given their rightful place as the superior (in their mind) civilization.
Yeah our (US) civilization has plenty of flaws, I'm not meaning to suggest otherwise. Just saying since you asked, if it seems they are targeting the US a lot, this could be part of it. Plus the obvious fact that the US is the biggest and softest target.
The same is true for USA. You can see American society collapsing. American military cant get enough people to sign up. Majority are too out of shape to serve. Then you have underperforming troops that peppered with softies other than a typical male. Police kills for pleasure, elections irrwgularities across ALL election tiers (used to be around local municipal level, but now at presidential level). High homelessness and proverty. Lifespan dropped. Literacy dropped. Significatlnt dedollarization in the last year now in favor of BRICS new currency, gold and crypto. Defeat by Talebans, Yemens and Syrians. Weapons are largely designed for maximization of maintenance then being effective. Expenditure literal has no bounds other than occasionall haggling of new debt ceiling. Compare to China, at least the Chinese able to build mega structures at record speed. You can ask any American architects that Americam absolutely cant built a Three gorge dam due to lack of know-how and severe legal constraint. China is waiting Russia to conclude so as to have strong partners to sink American pacific fleet and setup Eastern bureau for suicidation activities similar lile Mossad but on steroid level akin to what the Chinese practiced during Ming dynasty. USA is going for a very roigh ride in comong decades. Maybe Ray Dahlio is right om his book/YT.
I think China has been playing us for years, and doing so masterfully. There's no _good_ reason for the US, with our economy and standing, to be ripping itself apart from within -- but, indeed we are.
Not only is China growing in power and influence, as you point out, it has been investing in American media and other industries. They're famous for playing their strategic game over a long span of time (the long game).
My pet theory is that Hollywood, Silicon Valley and the Left are thoroughly (and probably unwittingly) influenced by the infiltration, and are the medium for memes and messaging that divides us so much. It's as though we're about to re-fight the Civil War. China, the master that it is at cultural revolution and re-education, is playing a shrewd game.
I think they're about to beat us cold by causing us to implode from within. If so, it's beyond sad -- but in terms of military strategy, a brilliantly played hand by President Xi and the CCP.
The united states is, on balance, a rather stupid country. We re-elected a dolt that invaded Iraq on the premise they caused 911 when they obviously didnt. That said, China poses a unique threat: a panopticon, freedom supressing government, with next to no option for change, and trying to expand its borders. Scary.
Every country in the world would be an empire like the US if they only could. Its a matter of opportunity not motivation.
The bigger issue is what would China do with all that power? We know what the US does with it and I don't think a world lead by China would be as nice a place as a world run by America.
It depends on what you want. Me, I want a world with democracy and due process.
I don't see anything like that eminating from China and I doubt I ever will.
China will hand America its ass either way - in the next decade or two. A large, highly-skilled population with strong national unity is going to be an unstoppable international force. America is more fractured than ever, and more incompetent than ever (the soaring college graduation rates notwithstanding).
It’s just that Americans are slow to adjust to a rapidly changing reality.
Also, let’s not pretend that America does not indulge in pretty unethical behaviors - I have no fondness for Russia, but think America is intrusive, unethical, and untrustworthy as a national.
I think due to the US inability to fix fundamental issues with regards to upward mobility, education and a fuck you attitude on the world stage. Anything they do to counter China will only hasten the rise of China and their decline.
I agree with much of your argument in general but you seem to skew the reality of the situation in a very big way. China is the second largest economy in the world. By GDP measures, they have a long way to go but all of that wealth and control is in the hands of a very small group of people. As a nation-state, China is extremely powerful and should be held to exactly the same standards as other powerful nation-states. From the perspective of foreign policy, the state of development is derived from the ability of a country to project power. China can absolutely do this.
Given China's autocratic government, the conflation of economic and government interests is impossible to separate. This makes protectionist policies of China a dire risk to the West. The ability of social media in particular to undermine democratic elections should now be clear. The simple unregulated profit motive of Facebook has proved harmful enough. A Chinese controlled Facebook equivalent in the United States would be disastrous.
That is the story if you read western media but it is important to remember that there is a massive world outside the west where that story is turned on its head: Here the US is a frail aging empire that just cannot handle the peaceful rise of China, and the idea of it no being the top dog, and thus lashes out in an increasing desperate manner.
China, on the other hand, sounds perfectly capable and willing of manipulating our society to make it weak and broken, while at the same time forbidding the same content in their land.
I'd argue it even predates tiktok and it could explain why media and politicians are so much worse than 30 years ago. The other explanation is that we got complacent, and all great empires need generational weakness before collapsing.
Probably there's a bit of truth in both.
reply