Many besides 2000 mules are linked to on https://hereistheevidence.com/. Again, I'm not arguing everything linked to there is true. But for someone to say there was _no_ fraud in 2020, everything there must be false. But to cite one: Rachel Rodriguez on video confessing to ballot harvesting, knowing it is illegal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHI_-4ySY4o. She has since been arrested and charged.
Clearly it does happen. This, coupled with the other irregularities listed should be enough for most people to understand we need better security controls on our elections.
Read the article, the type of fraud committed here has nothing to do with the allegations made about the 2020 election being “hacked.”
Also notice this guy was caught, the 2020 elections would have needed to involve a similar fraud being committed in every state and city (as similar voting trends were observed everywhere despite changes in types of voting or counting machines between different states).
Also when the ballots for the 2020 election were hand counted, the counts matched.
Voting machines are bad. Their use makes it easier to commit fraud. However, those claiming fraud in the 2020 elections claimed "absolute proof" of fraud (Mike Lindell, the MyPillow guy's, words) when they were demonstrably bluffing.
It is both the case that voting machines can be compromised and that we know the most well-advertised claims of election fraud in the 2020 election are themselves fraudulent.
There are over a thousand links and not all of it is strong evidence but they surely suggest that there were irregularities in more than one location.
There are sworn affidavits under penalty of prejury [1], video showing dead people voting [2], votes in the trash [3], video evience [4] just to give you some examples.
Actually, there's plenty of evidence of fraud. This article is an announcement of the prosecution of some of it.
What's lacking is evidence of widespread fraud sufficiently coordinated and systemic to sway the results of a national Presidential election, which we aren't seeing because the system is already set up to monitor for it. 2020 wasn't the US's first time to the election roe-day-oh, and there's been 200 years of infrastructure put in place to detect and punish fraud, malfeasance, and attempts to infringe, dilute, or steal people's right to vote. That's why the claims one candidate made are extraordinary (and they failed to pass a smell test, much less bring actionable claims or evidence that would withstand legal scrutiny).
Most claims we see bandied about online are so risibly ignorant of the existing process that anyone with basic knowledge of how elections work does not take them seriously. They're equivalent in credibility and grasp of the system's machinery itself to saying foreign agents can compromise your computer by infiltrating the 1-bit.
To be clear: I'm excited that people are interested in the process (welcome to the club! There are literally t-shirts!). But I'm disheartened how many people come to the conversation thinking they already know how it works when, no, they don't; like many large and old systems, it has non-obvious quirks and Chesterton's Fences, and common sense doesn't always match up with the how or why of the system. Screaming "fraud" every time one sees something one doesn't understand isn't how one learns; it's how one guarantees continuation of ignorance.
Not sure on that specific claim, but every one of those type of "fraud claims" I've looked into turn out to be false and full of errors in how they used the information they had to try to prove their claims. An example from Arizona - not sure if the same one as Crowder, not going to watch YT videos on this topic - if it's important enough, write it up and publish it with references and proper proof that can be replicated.
I'm not aware of anyone claiming there was _no_ fraud. That would be silly. In a country with over 300 million people we can't possibly know that _no one_ successfully committed some form of fraud. Especially given the fact that we know for a fact of a number of people who tried both for and against Trump.
The claim is simply this: there is not, to date, any evidence of fraud sufficient to cast doubt on the election results. Your Gueillermina Fuentes is a perfect example of this. We're talking about 4 ballots. Even if we accept that all of those were Biden votes that would've otherwise gone to Trump (which is an unreasonable assumption), it changes the count by a total of 8 votes. You'd need 1300 all cheating for Biden against Trump (there have been Trump voters caught cheating too) to change the election.
That's evidence of an individual commiting a crime, not of a stolen election.
No one said there wasn't fraud in the 2020 election, there wasn't widespread fraud. This is a manipulation tactic, the claim is there was widespread fraud to flip the election when pestered for proof you produce evidence of isolated small cases of fraud. This doesn't prove anything about widespread election fraud.
What irregularities and how does that prove widespread fraud?
Show me a specific video and time that shows fraud.
Yes, for the most part. I do not think the doubts and suspicious anomalies are new or unique to the 2020 election, though.
As for the mob-like coercion, I don’t think there was this same kind of intimidation going on in 2020. I was using this concrete example of election fraud to refute the oft-touted assertion that voter fraud is vanishingly rare in the United States, and, it is never serious enough to affect an election.
In a naïve way I hope it opens the door to people being willing to accept the idea that if fraud can happen in big corrupt cities, it can happen elsewhere and we should tighten up our oversight laws.
Here's what's going to happen when you read this and respond (if you choose to). In response to links 1 and 2, you're going to post some kind of "fact check" which is no more than a "he-said-she-said" rebuttal from the very people who must be prosecuted for the theft in the first place. And in response to links 3 and 4, you're going to insist that they're isolated events and don't represent a pattern. In both cases, I'll have presented evidence, and you won't have.
If these were to be actual election fraud in 2024 outside of isolated incidents here or there there would be evidence for it. It would then not be false claims, and would not violate YouTube's policy.
Voter fraud happened. There's video evidence of it occurring in State Farm Arena in Fulton County, GA. There's forensic evidence of 70% failure rates on voting machines in Antirim County, Michigan. There's 1000+ witness affidavits signed and presented under the penalty of perjury in various legislatures around the country. There's also statistical fraud detection algorithms that have numerous red flags with regards to the 2020 election. Repeating the lie that claims of fraud are unsubstantiated is the real problem. We have a broken, hackable electoral system with systemic issues.
Isn't that all speculation? I'm not aware of any verified election fraud, in the US. It's like Halloween candy, which everybody knows isn't safe but there are never any verified cases of a problem.
blows whistle
Flag on the play. Moving the goalposts. Five yard penalty. Repeat the first down. But more seriously, let's go allll the way back to your original post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23318100
>>in the complete absence of any actual fraud happening
That is an objectively false statement. Will you concede that?
>>>An extremely motivated source like the Heritage Foundation was able to find 1,285 instances over 41 years?
>>>Did you even click through more than one of these?
Did you? California's list doesn't have a single entry pre-2000, and over half of them are post-2010. Texas? Same, nothing pre-2000. New York? One in 1983, one in 1999. Florida? Four entries pre-2000 (and a BUNCH 2002-2010, probably due to fallout of Bush-v-Gore).
So either election fraud enforcement has become significantly more vigilant post-2000, or election fraud incidents have seen an astronomical uptick. Or both. But what we DO know for certain is:
-The incidence rate is non-zero, especially in the past 10 years.
-Some elections have in fact been swayed by fraud.
-We should probably spare at least some modicum of serious thought and allocate some resources to improving the process integrity and security of one of our most sacred civil institutions. We make it rain fiat currency for every other government boondoggle imaginable, why is there so much opposition to THIS?
I did see it but it was also flagged so I couldn't reply.
The thing about those affidavits, multiple people said the same thing about different polling places which makes it more believable in my eyes than if it was just one person for each allegation.
I do think there was fraud, I'm sure there is even some amount of fraud every election. The real question should be, was the fraud widespread and did it make a difference? I don't know but the fact that people can't even debate this is concerning to me.
Gueillermina Fuentes was caught on video and has since been charged, and pled guilty: https://www.azag.gov/press-release/guillermina-fuentes-enter... harvesting-case. Not a national case, but shows that it was happening during this time.
Clearly it does happen. This, coupled with the other irregularities listed should be enough for most people to understand we need better security controls on our elections.
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