The problem is expecting companies to "do the right thing" and not "make money".
If there was ever a time companies were good stewards to the world - that time ended before I was born.
Yes, Apple is not doing the right thing.
Show me any fortune 100 company in the world that would do the right thing...
What's frustrating - I think - in this case, is the amount of Apple fanboys who insist that Apple is literally the incarnation of God as a company, existing solely to bring about harmony and make the world better through the iPhone, not to take your money and put it in their shareholders' pockets.
You mean do the right thing by shareholders. Apple spends on the order of a 100 billion a year lining shareholder pockets through buybacks and dividends. That is three times what they spend on r&d.
This company is making obscene amounts of profit only to hand most of it over to people whose contribution to apple’s success is zero, instead of spending it on improving the products or customers actually responsible for that success. If this isn’t a condemnation of what’s wrong with capitalism, I don’t know what is. Tim Cook may have no other choice, but it is despicable that he doesn’t.
It's not morally okay. It's legally okay. Morality is irrelevant when it comes to corporate decision making.
I'm not saying this is how it should be. I'm saying this is how it is. And that is nothing new.
The problem isn't that Apple all of a sudden misbehaves. The problem is that apparently a lot of people have a really flawed mental model of what kind of behaviour they should expect from a company like Apple and make bad decisions because of that.
What gives people the idea I'm defending Apple? I'm not defending them. I'm just saying it's wrong to have expected them to act any different than this.
You can't force them to behave morally. But you can inform your market decisions if you understand that companies will behave like this if there is no sufficient disincentive.
You're not to blame if you think this is bad. It is bad, and you are right to be morally outraged. But you are totally to blame if you're a happy Apple customer and are only offended because the behaviour surprises you.
I've never thought Apple was a saint - they've always been a for-profit company.
But I've always thought they'd want to do the right thing with regards to this issue, because to do so is a win-win situation: they protect customers, and long-term generate more profit through increased consumer trust & spending on their brand.
This case, however, demonstrates to me that their policing system is so full of inexplicably large holes, that we have to go back to ask what it means to "want" to solve this problem.
It just doesn't seem they want to solve it that bad.
That's because you've made the mistake of thinking a multibillion dollar corporation can be legitimately altruistic or an ally to activists.
Apple hasn't acted hypocritically at all. Every decision they have made was calculated to fulfull their primary goal: generating profit for shareholders.
Apple is not a company only focus on profits, far from it, regardless what every other HNer is trying to paint them to be.
Philosophically what is right and wrong, and to whom? That's another question.
Of course using metaphysics to muddling the water is not my intention, but even using the common sense definition of "right and wrong" I still do not see what Apple does here as "evil" or "unhealthy". It is self serving to be sure, but I'm not convinced that the market is necessarily harmed in the process. There is and will be fierce competition in the mobile arena for many years to come unlike the portable music player market. Anyone is willing to take a bet against my observation? Apple is using the system to its own advantage, just as Google, if wielding patent bat is fundamentally wrong, then Google the white knight in shinning armor is a bigger cunt for its hypocrisy.
I don't want to inject needless cynicism, but why did you think that Apple was doing "the right thing" before and what exactly did that entail according to you? It just seems like strange to attribute those goals to a company specializing in Veblen goods.
You might be right about my vision being distorted, and I will think about that, but just so you understand me correctly: I did not say anything about selflessness. I have no doubt, that every move Apple makes is a business move; still, I don't think they only want to make money. They want to make money and deliver a great product. And the points Steve mentioned seemed reasonable to me...
I don't understand why people are putting moral dimensions on this business conflict. If you don't like Apple's platform or business practices, don't use it. All the users and developers are there by choice. Their alternatives were worse.
And Apple didn't make them worse. I was active in the mobile development world starting in 1999. It was awful.
Would I like it if Apple took a lower cut? Sure. I would prefer a 5% cut.
Do I want world's governments coming in and imposing more terms on these markets? No. Businesses respond to the expressed preferences of consumers and other businesses, whereas world governments have, in practice, far weaker accountability mechanisms.
Apple is simply playing by the rules of capitalism, which are as follows: extract as much value as possible from your customers, employees, etc, for the purpose of enriching capital (shareholders). Apple will follow the law to the letter, but they will do so in whatever way will be maximally best for their own interests. Way she goes.
People keep falling for the just-world fallacy[1], and companies exploit this through the use of propaganda (ads, marketing, yadda yadda) and most people eat it up. No company (not Spotify, not Apple, not the woke-est, most DEI company out there) cares about anything other than profits at the end of the day under capitalism, because capital rules everything and politicians are not exempt from the rules of capital.
I think it's even more odd that Apple somehow has become the medias corporate prodigal son that can do nothing wrong.
People need to realize that Apple is no longer the upshot company trying to survive under the boot heel of Microsoft, but actually a vastly profitable company utilizing all the methods expected from a global industrial giant.
Stop treating Apple as if they are some form of 'do good' company!
I would argue that Apple is one of the companies with enough money to do WTF they want to do. So, as you point out, they ARE doing what they want to do and hope people take words over actions. The key will be if they have hiring problems as they're not going to have marketplace problems.
I am of the opinion that the problem start with the ROI argument. Apple has managed to do the right thing and deliberately ignore ROI when it comes to accessibility. Why can they do the right thing, and the rest of the world can not be arsed to work for the good of the society?
You said it perfectly. It is surprising to see so many people coming to the defense of poor pitifual Apple, the richest company in the world. They have little reservation over doing business with vile regimes to squeeze a few more pennies per unit out of an iPhone. Then they buck dance for every social cause under the sun back home. Hypocrites.
Tough crowd here. I do believe the people at Apple feel strongly it is their mission to do things in ways that are great for users, and not because it makes money, but because they want to make insanely great things that are wonderful to use.
I understand the world has cynical people in it. But that doesn’t mean every person is just as cynical as you seem to think. Same with companies: I understand there are big evil companies in the world. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible that a company could be run with the principle of putting users first, and with sincere intent.
You keep saying "moral responsibility". They don't. Companies have already been telling the government what's wrong and the government refuses to change it. Apple is responsible to its shareholders bottom line.
is your point to criticize apple for doing their part because they aren't also doing the work for other companies not doing their part? How is that apples responsibility? The blame for other companies not doing their part is on the other companies. Society won't get anywhere if they blame bad things on the only companies doing things to correct the bad things.
If there was ever a time companies were good stewards to the world - that time ended before I was born.
Yes, Apple is not doing the right thing.
Show me any fortune 100 company in the world that would do the right thing...
What's frustrating - I think - in this case, is the amount of Apple fanboys who insist that Apple is literally the incarnation of God as a company, existing solely to bring about harmony and make the world better through the iPhone, not to take your money and put it in their shareholders' pockets.
reply