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The perception of "Free Software" is that it's a lot of extra work, which most people don't want to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

I don't know many engineers who actually like how Apple locks down their platform—it's just to them the perceived trade-off of "Apple's polish" vs "configuring free OSS software" isn't worth it.

If we're being realistic, most people I encounter want Apple to loosen their grip a bit so they can run software without Apple's permission or paying their 30% App Store tax.



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You don't understand what free software means. It means freedom respecting software; something that you control. Apple could still have audited free software into its appstore as it does for nonfree software currently.

That software is free because Apple has a strong incentive to develop a "platform" with which to sell their comparatively expensive hardware. In that context, I wouldn't say people don't realize that real software has a significant cost. That may be the case, but I'd sooner say the market values the software's complements (in this case, hardware, robust compatibility and a healthy development ecosystem) more than the software itself.

One perspective is that people are trained to be too cheap because of market incentives, but another perspective can be even well-informed consumers make a reasoned pricing decision that concludes with free or low cost software. And if you want to make a normative point, you can say that this is bad for small companies trying to make software for these consumers, but you can also say that consumers are benefiting more by purchasing the software's complements rather than the software itself.


While i agree on the value of libre software, i think we should not exaggerate what's happening here.

1. Most people are not aware there is such a thing as libre software, let alone why it would benefit them. Most people therefore will not channel their frustration at this move into a demand for libre. In fact, most people won't even realize apple did anything. They'll blame the original developer.

2. In apple's view, if there is 32-bit software people need or want, some developer will fill that gap. Apps to them are easily replaced and ephemeral. That is not necessarily wrong or in conflict with the view that all software should be Free.

So I don't think this decision matters much or will have much consequence. But it still is regrettable.


I don't think that freeware is really a part of the Apple Developer ecosystem. Most of the MacOS exclusive software I use on a daily basis costs $20-$30, a price I'm more than willing to pay for software like Pixelmator, DaisyDisk and Alfred that is significantly more polished (and Mac-ish) then the average piece of open-source software just due to the resources available to them.

its not that non-free software is more polished, its just that Apple software is more polished. I don't care for the freedom that much as long as I still have my linux servers and mac laptop on which I can literally install anything, but I really can't bear the lack of polish of an Android device. each time I have to touch any of those makes me cringe. its not that apple if without problems, but after using apple for a while its really hard to go back. you kind of expect the level of polish not found anywhere else.

> The real question is: why the sense of entitlement?

... on a platform that is definitely not free/open, and definitely not on the low end of the price scale.

"Free" software is great, except for the expectations some bring that everything should be free, and nobody should profit from their efforts - except for Apple apparently.

I use a mix of Apple products and F/OSS software, and I am happy to pay for quality products when they satisfy a need, especially from small or independent developers.


There are overwhelmingly many such contempties in Apple and MS systems. Not more, but different and disabling. Apple and MS don't try to present the illusion that what they build is for your benefit. People know they are Big Corporations that care less-than-nothing for you or me, or our wants or needs, and that it is only by luck when we can get them to do anything at all.

It is the imagined promise that Free Software is done for our benefit that lends us the delusion that things should be the way we want them.

In fact, Free Software things are much more likely to actually work, in the way that somebody wants, than Apple's or MS's. Just, not you. In the case of Apple and MS, there is typically no living individual who wants it to do what it does, but changing it would require initiative whose attempt at exercise would severely punished.


Yes, I was mainly talking about the free as in beer. Not as much free as in freedom regarding Apple's stuff.

Apple used to charge for all their software. I give FOSS credit for changing that. I think Lion was the first free OS upgrade. I credit FOSS for Microsoft giving a real copy of Visual Studio away for free. They've done it in the past, IIRC, but it was so hobbled, it was useless.


Apple software (kind of). It's tied to specific hardware, so it's hard to say if people are paying for the software or the hardware.

I have seen people turn down free software because they mistakenly believe an expensive program must be better. But that's not really the same, since that isn't a form of showing off.


I strongly disagree.

I think if it wasn't for free software, many companies would lock up programming tools like the game consoles.

for example, python on mac is a dud. I believe 2.7 and I have heard grumblings about it going away. Apple wants you to buy your code, and if you want to write code, to use the languages they are in control of as a separate download.


It's good that more companies are adopting free software, but most of them do not, in turn, release their core applications as free software. This indicates they do not value freedom more than they value saving money.

> I've gotta disagree with you there.

I was talking from the POV of the developer.

In many cases, you get what you pay for. I've used many examples of open source software. There are times and places where it's the best thing. There are areas where there is too little incentive for commercial companies. There are also times when you want ultimate freedom to do what you want. There are also times when you want to pay for a level of polish and know things just work. There are also times when you want to be the one doing the polishing and get paid for your work.

> Meanwhile, it costs money over on Mac OS. It certainly does nothing to help the perception of the mac ecosystem as one that's overpriced.

I don't see the logic in having a price above free being "overpriced." Free as in beer is not a right, nor is it some sort of ultimate good. Sometimes, it's also a sign of a broken market.


He says

> There's no such thing as free software.

That's a hyperbole.

He also says

> The question is, "Who pays the price?"

Not everything is done for gain. When someone gives you an apple you're probably not that concerned about how it came to be, to you that apple is free. But there's also that added advantage of software - you can copy and share it just like that with the whole world.


I value free, open source software more than convenience. For this reason, I will not use OSX or any other non-free operating system no matter how convenient they may be to use. That convenience comes at a great cost that I am not willing to pay.

I was very careful in the way I worded my argument to avoid this strawman rebuttal (see the part about computing elites).

Of course you are right that we should rise to the challenge of shipping excellent free software, but experience tells me that it doesn't matter how good we get at this, we will still be undone by the transient nature of software stacks. Patches will be necessary unless people never upgrade, which of course they will because sooner or later they will desire new features or it's necessitated by security. At best we can asymptotically approach the amortized cost of having someone else manage your software for you, and even that is dreamland until free OSes finds a way to approach the UX provided by Apple/Microsoft/Google.

You're welcome to devote your life to proving me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.


This is, in my experience, another interesting and unintentional side effect of a free OS.

When the OS is free, the engineers I've talked to who have been tasked with using it to implement their product are generally less experienced (which is to say less expensive). And the entire impression I get is that there is some cost minimization going on. Some sort of psychological trick that if its an expensive OS you need some expert engineer to bend it to your will, but if its free and seems to be everywhere, well you can hire an intern to do all your integration, development, and testing.


The problem of people wanting software for free is such a hard thing to combat. There's something psychological about software that people don't realize what it takes to make it. Most people would never expect to obtain a physical item for free, and then get mad when they are charged for it, yet they do this with software.

The current status quo for consumers is software should be free. Changing that is going to be very, very tough.

Free software isn't about money, it's about freedom. You value the freedom enough to complain when it's trodden on, but not enough to do the work required to continue to be free.

Freedom has a price.

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