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I agree it’s process dependent but it’s also processor dependent. In the end we can’t say highly refined organic chemicals are strictly better here.


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There are some relevant differences regarding byproducts, contaminants, etc. No production process is entirely clean.

Yes it is true that any process will have degrees of contamination. I was just contesting that the distribution is “the same”, entirely process/substance dependent!

It still needs as much or more chemical processing as wood pulp, I'm not convinced it's that advantageous.

Yes, the "ultra-processed" claim seems way off. It's not the processing in this experiment, it's the choice of raw materials.

Yes, but….. industrial chemicals also have contaminants that are different, potential chirality issues, and quality control problems that are different than ‘natural’ products (scare quotes because most are still industrially processed).

As any chemist will tell you, no process has 100% yield with zero dangerous side products, let alone 100% of the time.

Real processes have mistakes that make it past QA, let alone scams and other issues.

Is the concern generally overblown? Yes. But it isn’t completely unrealistic either.


The article says surrounding chemical conditions are quite different.

Agreed. Just pointing out that they're going up against an established DuPont process.

The quality control and contamination problems are different, yes.

That doesn't mean you can tell which one is better without extensive testing.

Being made from dirt in a random field is not great for purity.


I think most industrial chemists would likely disagree. But I guess YMMV.

To answer my own question, the phenylacetone process is cheaper, simpler, and produces higher purity (~90% from 80%) product.

Smells like drugwar propaganda.


> We've discussed this in chemistry classes. The compound is the compound. Why does it matter where it's sourced?

Because the purity might not be 100%. There might be some petroleum left in the end product. Especially given that suppliers have a financial incentive to not care about safety that much.


Because you can’t be richer than thou if you’re eating or using the industrial chemical. It’s got to be the artisanal version

See H Enfield:Richer than thou

https://youtu.be/U8Kum8OUTuk


I think it more a result of companies that synthesize the raw material being unwilling to whip up things like SARS variants, and it being quite difficult to figure something out like that from scratch. That may change or turn out to be incorrect, this is just my understanding at the moment.

Depends on the supplier not if it’s nominally a natural or artificial chemical.

The chemistry varying isn’t the real world issue, as I understand it, it’s the varying interconnection and cell packaging… aka the plastic and the inter-cell wiring. Snip snip, a lot slower than it should be, and the actual packages and cell trays should be standardized as well.

substrates matter.

I think it’s more poetic. Yes, the results may be different and they have values that synthetics don’t possess, more variability for example or less colorfastness, but to say that overall they are inexplicably better, is overselling it.

Sure, I like indigo, woad and maybe carrots or beets for Easter eggs but that doesn’t mean they are better. There may be preferences, yes. Better? That depends on use.


Right. I wasn't really clear, I was referring to the degree of purity not the process or source.

It turns out that microscopic impurities within specifications can still be a problem if they're potent enough.

Same would've happened state-side if the production was still there too.

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