Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

> Buying a second, third, fourth home?

It's too easy for the ultra-rich to find loopholes in any rules. If there is a tax on homeownership, they will simply not own any home but will own some corporate entity that own the asset. See ? No secondary residence. Just an investment in a corporation that happens to home a bunch of houses.



sort by: page size:

> What happens if legislation is passed that more or less prevents people from owning property that's not their primary residence? Like: if you don't live in it more than 190 days a year, you pay a really high property tax on it.

That already exists in a way - there's the concept of a primary residence tax deduction, which is (more or less) what the name sounds like.

It varies widely by jurisdiction, (not just country, but state and local government as well), but the idea of trying to differentiate residents from landlords in tax policy is nothing new.


> Residence-first real estate policy needs to include tax that increases on the number of properties owned (and maybe even more steeply in a supply constrained market).

People might try to get around this by forming corporations or trusts that hold max one property each. There is really no need to count how many other properties someone holds. Just do a re-assessment every year and ratchet up the assessed value on all housing that the owner does not occupy, including vacant property and renter-occupied. Seems a lot simpler.


> Furthermore, investment homes do not get tax exemptions, so they're already taxed at higher rates than primary homes.

Are you referring to the almost comically small property tax reduction for primary residences? Or to the mortgage interest deduction?


> Why not regulate the amount or at least the velocity of how many homes a person can own?

That is something that could be done, to a degree.

You can increase transfer taxes and offer a partial refund over the course of some number of years, provided that the home has the homeowner exemption in place.

Increase the property tax rate while also increasing the homeowner exemption so that the total tax paid is the same as it was before.

Etc.


>You’d be carving out an exception for ~55% of homes.

I don’t think so. Your stats [1] are just for percent of all dwellings, many of those homes are owned by large corporations that then lease them out. If you limited it owning a single home, I think it would be significantly less, more like a 25% exemption by volume(probably less by value) this is backed up by [2] which says home ownership is around 56%. I’m fairly sure more individuals/families than you’d think own more than one home in the state.


> "In the context of property used as a residence", most European countries do not tax first homes, end of story.

I'm not talking about sales taxes on the sale price of a home; the US doesn't tax those either. I'm talking about property taxes, as in the taxes typically assessed by a local government to property owners as a percentage of the appraised value of their property. I'm saying that such property taxes produce various undesirable effects (as mentioned several comments up).

That's orthogonal to questions of how to deal with people owning, buying, or selling multiple homes. It may or may not make sense to apply different rules in those cases, such as not providing an exemption for sales taxes on such properties. (Though you'd have to be careful there to not cause problems with rental prices.)


> 2. Start punitively taxing second homes;

I'm assuming you mean punitively tax 2nd homes that aren't being rented out?


> it would ‘tax’ house owners less than renters

It would tax house owners less than people who had same amount of money but didn't buy house and kept money in bank. If both house owner and renter had $1000 in bank, they would lose the same.


> heavily taxing multiple property ownership

Which would harm the development of multi-family housing and increase the cost of living. Remember that "real workers" do not build and own 100+-unit dwellings


> Why do I get to write off some of my mortgage payments on my taxes simply because I can afford to take on a mortgage?

A. Because it's popular with swing voters.

B. Because it puts your purchase of a financed house on a more equal footing with a commercial landlord's purchase of that same house from a tax perspective. (Interest expense incurred in a bonafide profit-seeking business endeavor is tax deductible. If your private mortgage were not equally tax deductible, the tax policy would favor for-profit landlords over private homeownership. I believe that there are valid public policy reasons to encourage private homeownership at least to the extent of putting it on equal footing with commercial real estate leasing.)

To be very specific, if tax policy didn't do this, commercial landlords could literally bid more to purchase a given house than a private buyer could for a given projected rent [real or imputed] and investment hurdle rate. You could argue "well, then disallow all interest deduction!", which is a policy change that's been floated somewhat frequently, including recently, but is more complex and needs study [IMO] rather than simplistically eliminating the mortgage interest deduction and assuming that would make housing more affordable or more evenly accessible.


I guess my deeper point is, someone could make a law - you can only max own 2 homes, after 3rd home and thereafter, taxes go through the roof for capital gain.

Having homes as a speculative investment is a great way to have an entire generation having low home ownership.

And I agree, both sides are equally worse.

With colleges, homes, healthcare, daycares, food becoming so expensive, the effects will be huge but we’ll feel it decades later


> to include homes owned and occupied by able-bodied people who don't work for a living and never earned the kind of money that would be needed to afford such a home.

That sort of means testing isn't required (and would be open to system-gaming / perverse incentive creation anyway). You just apply capital gains tax to all properties with the exception of one primary residence per person, and you could even cap the primary-residence exemption at the median value of a home in a particular area. So if you own property and rent it out rather than living there yourself, it gets taxed as an investment, period.

So that this cost isn't just passed on to renters, you should make the rental payments for your primary residence tax deductible, again perhaps capped at a median level so as not to perversely encourage higher rents.

I think you could construct a tax regime that was revenue neutral pretty easily this way.


We already have the concept of a primary residence. I'd strongly support laws that impose fast-ramping tax burdens on further ownership. Possibly with a more modesty burden for a second home—say, a family purchasing one to pass to children, or preparing for retirement—but I don't feel that there's any acceptable reason for owning several homes.

The rebuttal you're probably going to hear about this is how this will inordinately punish the private citizen buying a second home as an investment property. We do ultimately need some amount of rentals and those need to be affordable - if the investment property has the hell taxed out of that's going straight to the renter. I say this in an effort to try to point out it's a complicated issue, I in no way support the current large investor predatory housing market.

> It also encourages debt and is effectively a subsidy to banks

I have no idea who is downvoting you. That's absolutely correct.

If they really wanted to subsidize ownership they would make it tax deductible to pay down principal. (And then give you zero tax basis so it's all taxable income when you sell, and cap the maximum sunk deduction per person at the median home value so rich people don't buy twelve houses to avoid their taxes.)


Yep. Homes can either be for shelter or for investment, but not both. We are experiencing this as a global culture.

I dream of a 100% tax rate on second homes, foreign ownership, and corporations owning single family homes and condos. Or even better, make it illegal. But any politician who pushes such a bill would immediately get removed from office and the law repealed.


If you own two homes, you're definitely pretty rich, pay your taxes.

> The tax system is very biased in a favor of home ownership.

With the recent tax changes including increased standard deduction, SALT cap and mortgage deduction cap, this bias is greatly reduced.


>> leveraged bets on asset prices at taxpayer expense

But doesn't the tax code distinguish between a house which houses its owner and one which doesn't? I don't think investment homes are treated tax-wise the same as normal homes. I am not aware of tax advantages being extended to investments just because those investments are houses, but maybe I am wrong?

next

Legal | privacy