My choice isn’t about health or evolution or talking points. It just doesn’t feel good to me. I’m comfortable with being empirically wrong, and I actually held off from making the transition because I thought it made no sense to stop eating meat. I liked hunting and spear fishing. I stopped caring if it made sense or not at some point though because it simply didn’t feel good anymore.
I don’t know better than anyone. I do know that I buy plant based meats occasionally because I don’t want to eat real meat — not because I want anyone to see me buying it. Come to think of it, I sincerely doubt anyone gives any shits what’s in my shopping cart. If anything they’d think I’m an idiot for buying pink plant slime for ridiculous prices.
Ironically I think people who don’t eat animals actually don’t like telling people (certainly not in person, though on the internet on a site like HN it can lead to interesting conversations), because people such as yourself make it into something it isn’t. I avoid mentioning it and when it does come up, people seem to think they’re entitled to an explanation of a) why I’d do that and b) how I avoid being super unhealthy.
Sometimes it’s a fairly benign, uninteresting facet of one’s life and there’s no reason to conflate it with a superiority complex or knowing better than “basically everyone who lived and died since forever”.
I drive a large SUV. If I was trying to virtue signal I should probably start there.
I eat meat, love the taste of it, but would be the first to switch to a plant-based alternative.
I know it's tough to acknowledge it, but lots of people like me are a bit hypocrites when it comes to meat: we hate killing animals, but we love the outcome.
Genuine question.. how did you go from “Personally I don’t like a thing” therefore “humans evolved to eat meat”
Personally I don’t like peaches… does that mean humans evolved to eat meat?
Honestly it sounds like you tried 1 product, didn’t like it and used that to reinforce a totally separate worldview that you already wanted to believe and reinforce.
I don’t like beyond meat either, I agree it tastes funny, but personally that doesn’t make me feel like the only other alternative is to eat a cow.. I can just eat something else.
Do we have to keep having this conversation? Lots of people, like myself, choose to not eat meat because we care about animal welfare. It's not because we don't like eating meat. Therefore food that tastes and feels like meat but didn't require killing an animal makes sense.
I completely agree. The primary reason to not eat meat is that it's inherently unethical (factory farm or not). But a lot of people don't feel that way, so any argument that will persuade them to eat less (or no) meat works in my book.
For the longest time I was an avid meat eater. I would make all the jokes about vegans and vegetarians. But when I started looking into homesteading and raising food at home I started to realize that I liked these animals. When my dad killed the rooster after it attacked mom and I saw how much it hurt him to do it. I kind of realized I didn't want to do that anymore.
I understand why people eat meat, and why meat is important in our history. But I would rather just not do it. I feel much better just not participating. I'm happy that maybe someone doesn't have to kill cows for me anymore.
i eat them bc i dont want to gave to take unregulated supplements to make up for nutrtional deficiencies you wouldnt have if you just ate meat.
i belive in striking a balance between the fact that we want to minimize suffering and the reality that existing implies devouring and consumption. these last two things will not only induce suffering to animals but also to other humans.
and its unaviodable. and im not giving myself further neuroticism and anxiety bc i put the weight of the globe and its myriad of problems onto my shoulders which already burden enough selfishly and empathetic ally.
i eat for health.
period. I have a family to take care of. My health isn't just necessary bc I want my own life but bc people depend on me.
and the science isnt settled between vegetarianism and being an omnivore.
not by a long shot.
i will concede those in the west eat too much meat.
so ill extend the olive branch and meet you half way.
but i put my health above that of chickens, fish and the occassional cow.
i feel for them but theyre not people. i barely am capable of processing the horrors that happen to people on this earth.
i dont have room to consider everything that breathes.
Your moral finger wagging, BTW, isn't a way to win hearts and minds. People will just double down as a rebellion against your moral superiority complex. Youre kicking the legs out of your own political cause with your self righteousness
People who talk like this are why redneck "roll coal" as opposed to adopting hybrids and EVs..
Meet people half way.
This was a discussion about health and lifespan and like clockwork here you people come.
I love meat and many meat dishes. I would never stop eating them because they're a major part of my life. The question of if I want to change my diet is not one I'm asking myself. It seems weird to have to "debate" that with people. No amount of shaming is going to make me stop loving a good reuben sandwich or a carnitas burrito. I have no problem with other people eating what they choose but don't need to hear other people's thoughts on what I eat.
Think of it like pushy religious advocates. If they come to your door once and knock and you tell them to go way, that's mildly annoying but understandable. If they keep coming back every day saying that you "must" debate them, then that starts to get really annoying, really fast.
My main reason for staying with meat is that we evolved to eat it and not these plant based or lab grown alternatives. There is a very complex biological process in nutrition that we probably don't understand barely at all.
There is nothing wrong with eating meat (the substance) itself.
I used to eat meat.
The issue is the cruel and destructive process of the factory farm industry, which supplies most of the meat humans consume.
We are not hunter gatherers anymore, humans living in the 'modern world' don't need to kill non-human animals to survive.
Now we breed, torture and kill millions and millions of non-human animals and in the process destroy our biosphere [0]
So is it logical to continue this practice when we know it's destructive on multiple levels, i.e. on a human, animal and environmental level?
The HN community is made up of logical thinkers, so my assumption is that it should be quite simple for this community to make this cognitive leap and see how irrational it is to continue to support the large scale meat industry.
And from a humane perspective - if we can choose not to support cruelty - why wouldn't we?
Damian Mander - ex special forces guy and founder of International Anti-Poaching Foundation put it best in my view though: https://youtu.be/BUMGBwgGYWw?t=100
I'm also a big fan of Ethan Brown - founder of Beyond Meat. He realized people won't easily give up traditions and one way to shift people away from animal meat is to provide something that's as good or better than animal meat.
Would you eat meat that wasn't derived from animals?
That perfectly sums up why I stopped eating meat. There was no great moral outrage, and I don't yell at friends who eat meat. I just decided that I was no longer comfortable with my money funding processes that I found objectionable.
You didn't understand my point. I'm saying if this bothers you, you should stop eating meat. If it doesn't bother you, well, then no cognitive dissonance.
Personally I don’t agree. I used to eat meat, then decided it was evil, then later stopped eating meat. There was a long time there where I kept doing it out of habit and laziness even though I thought it was wrong.
I honestly can't seem to care whether the things I'm eating have feelings or not. But I'm considering cutting down on meat (especially bovine) because of its carbon footprint.
I stopped eating meat for ethical reasons, and after a couple of decades it makes me ill, presumably because my gut flora no longer tolerates it. So any reason to not eat meat can become a health-related specification, given time.
From the sounds of it I'm nowhere near as sensitive to it as you and bifrost.
I eat meat because I like the taste, but I don't give a hoot about the slaughter/animals. I don't want a replacement for my steak that is a bad steak, and I don't want to ruin great vegetables by making them into something that is not.
I agree that it's the only actual "reason." I just don't think it's a good reason. I think it presumes that the value of "taste" for us is greater than the value of "life" to an animal. And there's a lot of evidence that most meat is very unhealthy for you, anyways.
As an interesting (perhaps?) side note, I tasted meat recently for the first time in 2+ years and it was really lame and underwhelming. :/
My personal belief is that people are responsible for their own choices, I'm not going to tell them what to do (within reason).
I'm just saying that pointing at our biology as a justification for eating meat and acting like it's not a choice is not taking responsibility. And that's something I don't like in adults.
Leaning towards plant based is far too close to the “meat is bad, minimize it” camp for my taste. I think meat is not only good for humans, but strictly necessary for healthy development and functioning. In my assessment we aren’t eating enough high quality (important caveat) meat.
I don’t know better than anyone. I do know that I buy plant based meats occasionally because I don’t want to eat real meat — not because I want anyone to see me buying it. Come to think of it, I sincerely doubt anyone gives any shits what’s in my shopping cart. If anything they’d think I’m an idiot for buying pink plant slime for ridiculous prices.
Ironically I think people who don’t eat animals actually don’t like telling people (certainly not in person, though on the internet on a site like HN it can lead to interesting conversations), because people such as yourself make it into something it isn’t. I avoid mentioning it and when it does come up, people seem to think they’re entitled to an explanation of a) why I’d do that and b) how I avoid being super unhealthy.
Sometimes it’s a fairly benign, uninteresting facet of one’s life and there’s no reason to conflate it with a superiority complex or knowing better than “basically everyone who lived and died since forever”.
I drive a large SUV. If I was trying to virtue signal I should probably start there.
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