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> I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU.

Yeah, the EU.

> Germany's problem is the EU's problem.

Certainly not with regards to infrastructure. All countries around Germany are strictly better for mobile and broadband infrastructure.



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> Germany's problem is the EU's problem.

Let me try again: Germany has bad internet because Germany is German, not because the EU forces Germany to be German.

I agree with the other sentiment you express: that Germany's bad German ideas cause problems for the entire EU due to Germany's size and influence. France's bad French ideas are of the same dumb variety and they also cause problems for the entire EU due to France's size and influence.

All member states have their favourite dumb ideas. That's not much of a problem if they balance out with each other. It's a big problem when they don't.

And of course the EU would be better with less German and French influence. The EU would also be better if the UK could Brenter to counter the Big State and Big Planning ideas of not just Germany and France but also Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc. The "Frugal Four" certainly can't do it alone.


> Germany's problem is German, not European.

I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Germany's problem is the EU's problem.

I often feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding in German politics which then spreads to EU politics. They make the same basic mistake the Soviets made: believing that people are perfectly rational, don't react to incentives, and will do what's best for everyone if given the chance. Why have competition, you'll just waste resources. If someone says they're not able to work, surely that's true, so just give them money. If we just give billions to academics, surely they'll spend it wisely and get us a first class satellite internet. If we elect someone, it's always wise to give them plenty of power so they can make their job efficiently, there's no way they'd abuse that power. If we establish a bureaucracy, surely they'll focus on being efficient and nobody will try to grow their department beyond necessary just to increase their status.


> Meanwhile, the EU slides farther and farther into irrelevancy when it comes to being anything other than consumers of tech. All the EU seems capable of doing is creating additional bureaucracy while hamstringing Europeans trying to actually realize Europe's potential in the field.

What are you talking about?


> I don't understand the revisionist conflation of the EU and Germany. Germany are not the main power in Europe, although they are a significant part of it.

Who would say is the main power?


> but we’re discussing the EU here.

Yes I know. You seem to be insinuating that it's all the EUs fault, and so I wanted to provide a bit of perspective.


> EU should develop its own infrastructure for communications.

Before telling that EU or US should develop its own infrastructure for communications, think why it's not there already, and why it needs a boot from the government.

US, and EU largely nuked their own industries without any foreign spies blowing up bridges.

I cannot single out what's in particular what's solely responsible for demise of industrial economy in the West, but having tried it myself I can say that the sense of swimming against the current is omnipresent.

Don't just spray money, first think why doing so 10 times before did not work.


> Once again the EU is playing catch up with last gen tech. Starlink is almost 10 years old.. If the EU was serious, it should have invested proactively in next gen

Thats not their job.

Their job is to build infrastructure for Europe, Tonnels, GPS, bridges, etc, like the massive tunnels they are building through the alps.

https://youtu.be/30foJiPUrBA

Now they decided thay just like modern military and government needs a GPS, they need satellite based internet. I am sure war in Ukraine has helped sharpen minds there.

Their remit is not to invest in speculative projects ala hyperloop.

How is 5G mobiles connecting to sattelites relevant to EU?

Thats 100% commercial operation, if it is relevant, it's the job of European mobile operators to fund it, not for tax payers.


> the EU as is is hopelessly underpowered to effectively address big issues. They just don't have the mandate to actually get all 27 states to act as one.

The EU addresses privacy and many other issues better than the US.

The EU has implemented actually changing the currency of every member, just as one example.


> It strikes me that the EU and the USA are really going in different directions in governmental philosophy.

You don't have the right perspective: The EU project since 2008 has show all of its flaws. It has been heavily jeopardized and it's in the brink of collapse. All these politicians in Brussels are not directly elected. Actually there's a huge discussion if they should be considered elected or appointed. Since the -crisis stepped in, the European Parliament has been reduced into a Clown. No decision is being made there and it's seen by the entire north and south as the mother of all evils. Germany is in control now.

So in order to get back some support, it is trying to become more social. Up until now the only good thing that ever came it was the ridiculous USB thing (where companies all use USB adapters and not different forms). Other than that, it did nothing to promote the values theoretically stands for.

And if all this sound naive, mind you, in my country Euro-philes were at a rate of 95% up until 2007, now it's less than 35%... They don't make gallops because local politicians are afraid of the results


>It became clear to us in the last weeks, that all political initiatives to create an independent European digital infrastructure have been stalled or postponed for years.

But that's exactly my critique about europe.


>Well in the EU we still have opportunities to fight against other's monopolies and try to impose ours. Which a single small country can't...<

Except for Korea, Japan, Singapore, etc.

>Talking about failures, there are so many in the UK right now<

This is why it's good Britain got out sooner than later. Europe, especially France and Germany, can't handle the idea that their 'European way' of doing things hasn't kept pace with the times. It's easier for these people to attack those trying something new than to accept the possibility of change. At least catch up with SEA before taking cheap shots at the UK.


> Yes. But I have The Great Belief that EU is _still_ one of the Goods. That may or may not last.

Still eh? What happens when that belief has waned? The infrastructure will still be there.


> That isn't an accident. Germany and most of Europe have no tech sector to speak of as a direct consequence of their labor and regulatory policies. The EU is a huge economic block, comparable in scale collectively to the US or China, and it has a highly educated population. And yet, it has near zero presence in the most important industry of the 21st century. That's a staggering indictment of their economic policy. 2nd and 3rd tier US cities have more tech than Europe does.

If I have to choose between having one of the two relevant industrial robot companies in the world (Kuka, the other would be Yaskawa, also not from the US or China), the market leader in automation systems, pneumatic systems, etc. (Festo) and "companies making money by systematic privacy violations" (Hello Facebook, Google et. al.) I know which I'd rather have. And which industry is more important.

I think the EU is doing just fine here. But thanks for the concern.


> The EU have regulated themselves into a corner where all they can do is shout at American and Asian tech companies

I think you may have this backwards. Consider the Brussels Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

I used to think of the EU as stagnant compared to the US. But now I realise (especially in light of COVID) that some things we consider inefficiencies are actually safety margins. The EU may not move fast and break things, but I'm starting to view them as slow, steady and generally robust over the long term (think multi-generational).


> EU response to this is various EU funding programs that are mostly throwing money away for little to no benefit.

You're framing this as if it's the EU's job. It isn't.

The only way the EU could compete if it would become a federal state, similar to the US. Right now the EU, despite being a single market in many respects is far from being a true digital single market.

Individual states are actively fighting against this because they would have give up bits of their sovereignty (controlling tax levels, such as VAT, commercial legislation, etc.).

You can't both have your cake (a huge single market able to funnel huge amounts of money into your desired investments) and eat it (keep total control of your country's finances).


> You know that EU also have computers engineers ? It’s not like we couldn’t survive without Apple or Google.

You vastly underestimate how interconnected and dependent the modern tech stack is. EU computer engineers would be thrown back to 1950s if they could not depend on decades of US engineering and services.

I say that as a European.

EU is clearly playing a losing game here and is well on track of becoming the world's largest outdoor museum.


> Name one important issue where the EU has reached a satisfactory agreement and results.

Whenever someone asks for one single thing, they don't mean it. I predict anything I name will either not be important enough or you will not consider anything less than complete unanimity across the continent to be satisfactory.

But fine, I'll play. Abolition of mobile roaming charges across the EU.


>What the EU is upset about is their failure to supplant either of those hubs with Paris or Frankfurt.

What makes you say this?


> It’d be stupid to run a cable straight through the EU, as well, yes.

Politically, maybe. Technically and financially, not at all.

There’s 3GW of interconnection between france and the UK with a 4th under construction, and france is a broker / hub between germany, italy, spain, and the UK (as well as its own production).

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