America is an awful country and they have lead 50+ coups. Murdered many millions. Installed tons of fascists, right wingers, and dictators. How is that protecting the rest of the world’s democracies?
If you’re in NZ you don’t have to fall for American capitalist agitation propaganda. It’s obvious the US only cares about advancing capitalism and its own imperialist whims.
This is exactly why “America is bad” is such a common opinion.
The preferred response of many of its citizens and politicians, is to prove the critics right with no thought of how that affects the world. This vindictive idea is worthy of a 4 year old child that doesn’t know any better.
And I bet you think that the US never benefited from being the world police. You think that the only super power in the world projecting influence all over the globe was all done out of the goodness of their hearts?
Despite much criticism, the US was the country most democracies looked up to or followed. It’s sad and quite worrying for the world that we’re now seeing the end of that.
The most fascinating part of Americanism to me is that America regularly compromises and helps compromise any country that doesn't share the same interests, and America's citizens (mostly) think it's fine. The society lives in fear of its government, its representatives live in fear of its military, and the military is controlled by higher-ups who probably shouldn't have been given power. Often people accuse the leaders of these compromised nations of being dictators as if America doesn't have a track record of instilling even more evil leaders (for example, Pinochet[1]).
Why can't America just leave other countries alone and tend to its own sorry affairs? America tries to make other countries "more free" and then treats Blacks, Asians, Native Americans, Mexicans, other people of color, women, transgenders and other gender-nonconformists, homosexuals and anyone else that isn't heterosexual, Communists, Socialists, and anyone who isn't their form of "normal" as second-rate citizens in their own country. America (rightfully) accuses other countries of tampering in their election and then tampers in others' elections.[0] Their actions often contradict the values they claim to purvey.
I hear often that if another country was doing as poorly as America is right now, America would have "liberated" it already.
Ah, so it's okay for the US to have gone into Iraq and destroyed the country, killing hundreds of thousands in the process, then abandoning it, all to shore up support for a shaky election for an incumbent president at home... because you live a cushy SV lifestyle?
If you really are as sick as you emote about these kind of atrocities, then move away from the US, because the US hurts a lot of people to maintain its high standard of living. New Zealand is a pretty ethical place that doesn't kill either it's own citizens or those abroad. Its economy doesn't rely on abusing migrant workers. It has a decent tech scene. Go there.
Or you could just do the usual counter-counter-culture blather while not actually changing your life to suit your stated morals.
"burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies"
As an Australian, that's a pretty glowing interpretation of the US intervening where they aren't wanted or needed
Was the US protecting 'democracy' when they annexed Hawaii, or how they've treated Cuba? Or Vietnam or South America or Iraq or any litany of other countries
Hell. They helped depose Gough Whitlam because he dared threaten to nationalize our mines ala Norway, not to mention that worthless spying ring that is Pine Gap
I can tell if you’re joking or if I’m misunderstanding (there is a typo in there I assume?). You can’t name any other country that would be better off if the US hadn’t meddled? I can name more than that which my country meddled in and made a mess, and I’m from New Zealand.
USA has been a dictator around the world for a century. So many unethical wars involved. So many radical movements are cultivated by US propaganda. Now these fear fed propaganda are dividing itself and destroying the future. People who are blind to all these are the ones full of fake Democracy ideology.
America (to be clear, we are talking about the US Trump/Bush/Clinton/Obama regime, not the American people) is a menace to freedom and stability in the whole world. They steal our oil, infiltrate our companies, and place children in cages, and their minority and poor population incarcerated. Suspects are held without being charged indefinitely at black prison sites and tortured. They are the world's largest police state--meanwhile, our companies continue to work hand in hand with the US/Trump regime to develop products customized to suit regime needs and rules.
Impressive breakage of Betteridge’s law of headlines.
In the world stage it’s obvious to me that the US is the Least Evil Empire, so they have my backing. But damn what a close call it’s been huh? The list of ruthless dictators the CIA has helped gain power is so long I can’t even keep track. Anything the keep the commies out, and it simply wasn’t worth it.
If the US had taken their role as steward of the “Pax America” a bit more seriously, the global south would’ve today been as angry about Putin’s war as the West is. It makes perfect sense for a free speech free market democracy to be the leader of the free world but the US did a shit job at it.
The only time America really throws its economic weight around these days is when it enforces sanctions. The countries targeted by these sanctions are not generally regarded as beacons of freedom.
> regularly overthrows weaker neutral governments for similar reasons.
Name one neutral democratically elected government deposed by America since the conclusion of the cold war.
> Someone in South America would openly laugh at the idea that they’re free because of America, given how many democratically elected governments we’ve overthrown down there.
South America has had many leftist governments with a hostile foreign policy towards America over the past several decades. They generally seem to be getting on okay.
Edit: down vote if you must, but counter arguments would be welcome!
That's because the US already took over and genocided the interesting parts of its continent (+ Hawaii), and used covert operations to install friendly dictators across the hemisphere when it needed to maintain "democracy".
There’s a lot of political chat on this thread, and usually geopolitical discussions seem to bifurcate into two falsehoods amongst nerds.
The first group seem to be missing the terrible things the US has done to the world. It has had unrivalled military and economic dominance for the best part of a century and it has abused that power. Whether that’s invading countries, organising coups, killing foreign citizens in large numbers via CIA operations, etc etc, America has shown little restraint. I think often folks are not aware of this, because (a) a lot of America’s imperialism doesn’t get much news coverage in the west and (b) the victim countries are often not very interesting or significant to that audience. Only the really obvious events like Iraq get flagged.
And on the other side, there is this tendency to demonise America and defend other countries in order to criticise America. So, ignoring the realities of what China and Russia have done to other countries and their own people. I mean, just look at the eastern block communist countries, or what is going on in Ukraine now, to see how Russia operates. I’m less knowledgeable about China but internally the government has tried to unite the country by eliminating all types of diversity in very disturbing Orwellian ways. Externally it hasn’t found its military feet quite yet, but we can see the use of soft power to cripple countries in a way not dissimilar to western imperialism.
I think what does bother me is that either viewpoint is very black and white, very simplified, and ignores the positive things that those countries do achieve. The truth is the world is complex, it’s a mixed bag, and “America is great” or “America is pure evil” are viewpoints that lack any sense of nuance. I mean, America is not one president or one set of staff or one institution. Its government is multifaceted and can be in public disagreement with itself.
I think the big issue with America is the influence of corporate power, the way capital interacts with democracy, that’s its biggest sin when it comes to geopolitics, that’s where to focus your anger and inquiry.
"The US is a representative democracy that has rule of law"
The above statement holds, whoever it never stopped the support (material, logistical, etc) of murdereos regimes all over the world. Look, I'm not an idealist, I understand that the US is a power hegemon and as such it will always impose its will on smaller countries, same as the UK or France did in the past. What irritates me is that its citizens are convinced that they are "the good guys", when evidence against that is so overwhelming. At least the UK was clear in its intentions "we are building/defending the British Empire"
What a laughable notion. The United States has its problems, but they aren't sterilizing Muslims, taking over city states, disappearing political dissidents, creating debt traps for the developing world, or shutting down newspapers. The United States launches inquiries into civilian casualties, enforces regulations generally aimed towards the public good, enforces rule of law, has free democratic elections, and generally upholds the rights and freedoms outlined in its constitution. If you would rather live in the orbit of any single other superpower or empire in world history, you're deluded.
Cut the “America is a terrible imperial country. They invaded Iraq and police the world blah blah blah” BS.
Feel free to point out all the shortcomings, but you should indeed be grateful. The world is lucky to have at least one military superpower that actually has some regard for the rights of other nations and peoples. You’re not going to get that from Russia or China.
If you’re in NZ you don’t have to fall for American capitalist agitation propaganda. It’s obvious the US only cares about advancing capitalism and its own imperialist whims.
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