When a relative of mine did a “tour of Europe” in the 1960s, they faced invasive questions about their health. Immigration straight up said, “We think you’re trying to mooch off the NHS.”
I know a lot of Europeans who went back to the EU when they had health problems. This would even work for an American, because many EU hospitals will treat anyone who comes in needing care.
It infuriates me when anti-universal-healthcare people (they still exist) argue that US healthcare is superior because foreigners come over here for medical care. What year are they living in, 1979? Now, people leave the US for critical treatment.
Random personal anecdote. When I was a teenager, my family took a trip to Europe. This was summer of 1999, IIRC. Anyways, near the end of the trip, when we were in Italy, my dad came down with a cough and sore throat. Rather than try to gut it out for another week and then have to fly back to the US sick, we decided to try to find a doctor.
After consulting with the front desk at our hotel, we were directed to a small clinic a few blocks away. Being that it was evening, we were surprised they were open and even more surprised to be seen reasonably quickly (it was less than an hour, less than I usually wait at a clinic here in the US).
We were seen by a doctor who conducted the very typical medical exam. We mimed our way through it, and a prescription for an antibiotic was doled out. When we went to pay, we were waved away. "No money" they said, in broken English. They also gave us simple directions to a nearby pharmacy where we could get the prescription filled.
We walked over to the pharmacy, presented the pharmacist with the prescription. After waiting a few minutes, he came back with the pills. There was a cost for this, but I remember it being very cheap. Like a couple euro.
The whole thing, from start to finish, was less than 3 hours and only cost us whatever the antibiotics cost. Frankly, our biggest problem with the whole experience was the language barrier. Dad knew some French and I knew extremely basic Spanish and could puzzle out most things given enough time, but nowhere near close enough for a complex interaction such as seeing a doctor in Italian.
Fast forward 17 years (this happened to me last week). I'm visiting family in Tennessee and come down with the same sore throat and cough.
First, I have to find a clinic that accepts my out-of-state insurance. Then, I have to get there when they open because experience with these things has taught me that if I'm not there when they open I'm waiting a few hours. Fill out the 5 pages of forms. Pay a $30 co-pay before I even go back to see a doctor. And then STILL wait 2 hours to be seen. After the same cursory exam, the same prescription for antibiotics is doled out.
Walk down the road to the pharmacy and get it filled, waiting 45 minutes. Another $10. The whole thing from start to finish was probably 4 hours and cost me $40 out of pocket. No idea how much they billed my insurance yet.
The experience we had in Italy made a big impression on me. Even as a 17 year old, I walked away from that experience wondering why our system in the US is so broken. Surely we can do better.
I'm reminded of the time I was in the EU, in an area where tourism isn't common. Due to a lack of planning on multiple levels, I had to stay an extra two weeks. I went to get a refill for a prescription I need.
The pharmacist was clearly unconformable with the discussion that needed to happen. They informed me there would be a charge for the medicine. After some back and forth because neither of us was fluent in the other's language, it turned out they were asking me to pay the cost of the drug, an amount of money less than my normal copay, and something like 5% of what my insurance claimed the drug normally cost.
The pharmacist was most confused why I was happy to pay. I don't think they believed me when I tried to explain how much it normally cost me.
There was another long and widely exposed article about an American citizen going to Europe (France IIRC) to treat his father's cancer. He said that healthcare spirit only would have been worth it, more human and less a business than in the USofA.
I guess we should all travel to get perspective on our local environments and see what's possible with different organizations and beliefs.
European here, I think there are plenty of good reasons to bash European healthcare, chief among them being the long queue you end up in when you have health problems, people die waiting, this is not an opinion it's a fact, and here in Sweden, we're looking to cut down the wait as best as we can, but people keep falling through the cracks.
Anyway, it's important to remember that it's hard to get a deep understanding of everything in a country just because you've traveled there / lived there for a short time. Most information you get while traveling is important, but ultimately a lot more shallow than the information you have on your own country/culture.
Health tourism absolutely is a thing. There are even companies that specialize in arranging it. However, my understanding is that it predominantly falls into two categories, neither of which is particularly about exploiting systems like the NHS:
1) People traveling to e.g. the US or Israel to get procedures that aren't available in their home country.
2) People traveling from high-cost to low-cost countries and paying everything out-of-pocket because even forgoing insurance and adding travel costs still leaves it drastically cheaper than their home country.
There are some cases of people scamming government-funded healthcare, but I think those have been sensationalized by the press.
>I've been on state Medicaid in the US. I've also been on a single payer in Europe. People really have no point of comparison on how much more luxurious Medicaid is.
I don't doubt it. In the US, doctors and hospitals are incentivized to treat you like a cash cow and to do as many tests or procedures as possible, even unnecessary ones, knowing that your insurance company or the government will foot the bill no questions asked.
Whereas in Europe, the doctors and hospitals in the public system are incentivized to do as much cost cutting as they can by doing as little tests and procedures as necessary, to reduce costs and waiting times, and have strict regulations on when they can refer you to specialists or more expensive test, needing to justify it when they do.
This means that sometimes you can end up with some undiagnosed condition going chronic on you because the public doctor didn't want to, or wasn't allowed to refer you to an MRI scan when you first showed some light symptoms, because your light symptoms weren't severe enough to warrant such an expensive test. I sh*t you not, this happens more than I'd like to hear. It's why health tourism is booming in Europe, where people from richer EU countries go to the Eastern states for private tests or treatments since preemptive care in the European public system is failing people big time and they can't afford the private system in their wealthy countries.
Sometimes, having a fully private health system, really does have its benefits.
I went to the medical center and then a hospital multiple times while on a month long trip in Spain and Portugal -- came down with a weird bronchitis thing affecting my breathing.
It was 100% free. So I definitely got free health care on a tourist visa as an American.
> In RO, you literally have to fly to Germany/Switzerland or elsewhere to get quality healthcare and if you have a really bad accident, you may not make it to the hospital to get the care you need.
> That's the one thing keeping me from moving to RO today, even with its extremely low cost of living. I can't risk my family's health on the disastrous healthcare system there.
I have the same issue here in Croatia, and I spend a lot of time on the islands. There is no such thing as medivac (air rescue) here.
The solution to this is to get an International SOS plan, which covers pre-existing conditions. I know all about this because my sister was an expat living in one of the most corrupt countries in the world, Equatorial Guinea (Africa). If one became gravely ill there, you would be medevac-ed to Munich, Germany. Hers was an employer sponsored plan though.
You only have to declare one of your nationalities (as in citizenships) when filling out the forms, and I confirmed that this was proper procedure (you can also reside in the country of your nationality under the terms and conditions of the expat plan). I declared myself as a United States citizen. You also state where you plan on living the majority of the year (Croatia). The expat plan is something like $750/year, which may seem expensive. However, if the incident is severe they will also repatriate you back to your home country of citizenship. In my case, this would be the United States. I want to be repatriated where my family is, if I get gravely ill.
If you get very sick in Croatia and need to be medevac-ed out, they fly you to Vienna, Austria.
Having traveled a lot for work, I've had the good fortune to have received care in South Africa, dental work in Serbia and a number of regular treatments in Mexico. I'm a born and raised US citizen though I also have an EU passport. Any day of the week I'll sit on a plane for a few hours and pay less for much better care in another country. Healthcare is a racket here.
Better believe when retirement comes I'm nowhere near the USA.
As another piece of Eurotrash who has seen (much) more of the USA than the average American, I have some objections to your ehm, objections.
1. Don't get sick - probably true, but apparently they're working on it. I've found the level of health care mediocre compared to back home, but the prices absolutely insane. Think 10 to 100 times higher for the exact same treatments in some cases. Prices are so out of sync with the rest of the world that my insurance explicitly covers full healthcare costs in the entire world except the USA.
2. Don't have that in my home country either, except for the right to take a certain number of weeks of unpaid leave without losing your job (mothers only). Tbh, I don't think it's unreasonable not to get paid for time you don't spend working.
3. If you think this is better outside the US, you're in for a shock. Cultural sensitivities you take for granted will be different or completely absent, and others that make no sense to you will be in place. Simple math will show you that cancer screening of asymptomatic people is completely pointless by the way, but that's a bit off topic.
4. The only one from that list you really don't want to be in the USA is openly atheist. Just say you're not into organized religion instead, and you'll be fine. That said, I've never set foot in a place where being part of a religious minority was considered a good thing. Americans are less likely to openly say what they _really_ think about your kind than Euros.
5. Probably true. In most Euro countries, waving the flag outside the context of international sports may be associated with wingnuts on the extreme right
My mother’s friend did medical tourism and it went horribly wrong. When she got back home, local doctors were like “i’m not dealing with that problem because I didn’t cause it”.
The continuity of care is way better if you can keep the same doc once you get home.
No idea what you're referring to here. I've visited the US several times and have lived in Europe most of my life. I've needed to be hospitalized a few times in my life and I didn't need to pay anything, anything.
Exorbitant health insurance premiums and healthcare bills was the primary reason our family of 3 (now 4) left the USA (we're all American citizens). It's such a relief knowing that we all have the option to go to the ER without emptying our bank accounts. My tax rate is higher here in Europe, but I'm actually saving significant money compared to the USA, when factoring in healthcare costs.
My personal experience as a European citizen living in the U.S. is drastically different.
I flee the U.S. to have all my medical related tests and work, out of pocket, in the E.U.
And it is cheaper and much much better experience.
(And I don't get different treatment compared to any members of my family that are insured in Europe for paying out of pocket.)
First of all: I speak with a doctor. Not a nurse, an administrator to size me up, to see if I am in actual need of an appointment, but a doctor. (Yes, this has happened to me in the U.S. I find it unacceptable, especially given that I was apparently in much more dire situation than I even thought, and was lucky to be seen by a doctor, otherwise I would have joined the disabled group of individuals.)
I am not sure why people in the U.S. keep bringing up the UK [Edit: -- not sure if that is what you are implying but most people are in other comments]. Pick any EU country. Sure, you might not have a 5 star doctor's office, but you are going to be treated by a doctor efficiently. And that is what matters. Don't waste money on administrative tasks and fees.
Ouch. Nice move for Americans to fly in France where healthcare is affordable. If you did this in the US as a tourist you'd likely be broke for the rest of your life.
We had someone get sick on a trip to Iceland. They walked into the emergency room, talked with a doctor a few minutes later, and got some antibiotics. They were very apologetic because the U.S. wasn’t part of the E.U. reciprocity agreement and they would have to charge them for the costs and the total came to — cue Americans raised on medical news stories bracing in expectation – less than what their major university insurance copay would have been for the visit + prescription.
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