> Is that even Baltimore then? Or a bubble within Baltimore?
If it's in Baltimore, then yes, it's in Baltimore. Why wouldn't it count? If a foreigner says, "America is unsafe" and you say, "Well, my suburb is safe," can they say, "Oh, that's not America"?
I've lived in/near NYC, Baltimore, Boston, and Philly. Baltimore's the only one where I've been mugged (at gunpoint no less), or really robbed at all. Also someone was murdered in the building across the street from my apartment, in a botched home invasion. And I lived in one of the "better" neighborhoods.
Baltimore has an amazing creative scene (music/art/film/etc) and great food, and I actually really enjoyed living there, but the safety issue is quite serious.
I don't think the problem is insurmountable though. I'm surprised whenever I visit Washington DC in recent years, because DC used to be even more dangerous than Baltimore, but you'd never know it today.
NYC is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. 15 years here and I've never had a serious incident, and I'm struggling to even think of anything major affecting any of my friends too.
It's not misleading for major cities that I'm aware of, and especially not so for the "most dangerous" ones that the parent brought up.
It doesn't "just happen" that I picked Baltimore, it's highly relevant to the topic the parent posted raised, even if you'd like to redirect the discussion elsewhere and it doesn't represent the US as a whole.
> As far as safety is concerned, like other big cities, it's not really a problem for folks that would read HN, unless you enjoy hanging out in bars at 2am and getting into arguments with armed drug-trade people.
Again, completely inaccurate and misleading statement, despite yourself pointing out how residents don't like to admit how bad Baltimore is. Having worked in IT in Baltimore, a coworker of mine got mugged, a black eye, and had to take the next day off work just because he was strolling through a very popular park on a weekday evening. Wealth and education don't protect you if somebody targets you on the street, and it happens way more than Baltimore residents will admit.
> Furthermore, state law prevents Baltimore (and only Baltimore) from annexing suburbs to increase the tax base
St. Louis is the other major independent city. The state doesn't restrict its ability to annex suburbs, but it hardly matters. It doesn't happen, anyway, and it almost certainly wouldn't in Baltimore, either. Who wants either city's problems?
How many hundreds of thousands pass through American borders with little hassle every day? That is not news (but maybe it should be as well).
Also, one cannot paint with such a wide brush as "The USA." It is the same mistake as any American visiting London, Paris, and Berlin -- and then saying they have seen "Europe." They didn't see Europe -- they saw globalized mega-regions that happened to be located on the European continent.
Unfortunately, Baltimore is an outlier when it comes to violent crime, corruption, and poverty. It is an urban center in decline and in need of all kinds of help. (This is where I stop, else it becomes political very quickly).
Compare Baltimore to places like Denver, Dallas, or Phoenix, and you will see very different cities. The US is huge in geography, population, and economics. Pinpointing an outlier and concluding that the entire country is poor and dangerous does not make for constructive conversation.
We would do ourselves a favor to talk more about the specific problems Baltimore faces, and then look at the broader American context to see which sister similar cities have tackled similar problems.
> Maryland actually tops US News and World Reports
We are talking about cities, not states. The city of Baltimore has been consistently failing, which has been run by democrats for a long time. Not talking about the entire state.
> The Harbor these days is just empty compared to the '90s, which certainly makes it feel sketchier. As I said, I don't think it's that dangerous
Just adding the link here because I lived in Baltimore and think it's irresponsible that so many Baltimore residents try to hand-wave away how dystopian Baltimore really is. It absolutely is a dangerous place and visitors should be extremely careful if they visit the city. It was already at over 150 murders in less than half a year this past June.
> The violence has not let up with almost 160 murders in the city so far this year.
You mean Jobs? Philly definitely has more. But I found Balto to have more going for it, despite being tiny in comparison. Culture-wise, Baltimore has loads of everything (except the "we're pretending we're NYC-lite" that DC and Philly push). There's loads of green spaces, festivals, multicultural cuisines/neighborhoods, industries. Baltimore even exceeded Philly in things like hackerspaces/makerspaces/tool libraries. And Balt has [some] free public transit! And though the history isn't pushed much, there's a ton of it all around. I'd also argue the Inner Harbor exceeds any Philly tourist district in terms of interesting ways to waste a saturday for a wide range of people. Then you've got the stadiums right near the harbor, the light rail to whisk you up into the lush suburbs, and more quirkiness and charm than practically any city in the US.
I gave numbers and I gave context, and you have shown that you're not genuinely considering the idea that Baltimore might not be a great city for most people, you just have your opinion and aren't entertaining any alternatives. If you love Baltimore, great. But saying Baltimore is just another city when only 2 other cities in the entire country have more violence is like saying some country in the middle east some city in Pakistan isn't so bad because every city has bombings. Glad that comforts you, but it isn't true.
> There's no good reason to trash Baltimore or call any city "a hell-scape"
I will call Baltimore a hellscape 7 days of the week and I consider it 100% justified. I actively hope people don't move their for their own sake; I already left, it doesn't matter to me what happens there anymore.
I also encourage anybody who hasn't visited and doubts me to check for yourself and make your own opinion, not believe me or crispyambulance. Look up crime/violence statistics, reddit.com/r/baltimore, facebook groups, government corruption, illiteracy rates, crime maps, etc and decide for yourself whether what happens in Baltimore is "normal" for the US (let alone the entire world when there are many cities much bigger than Baltimore with a fraction of the crime).
Note that: (1) anywhere in Baltimore is far richer than the Bangladeshi village where my dad grew up; and (2) his village is nonetheless vastly safer and more peaceful.
What plagues Baltimore isn’t just poverty. (We lived there for a couple of years.) It’s a breakdown of the social hierarchy, and in particular the replacement of male authority with gangs.
"- just how unpopular would it be to abandon Baltimore?? "
I mean I'm from the Baltimore area and.. well.. I mean some of us would consider that town somewhat abandoned already, think Detroit. It has some pretty rough parts. With the main triggering event being 60s/70s loss of steel industry (Bethlehem Steel). Of all the big east coast cities (Boston, DC, NYC, Philly, Baltimore) I would say Baltimore is the most abandoned already.
Higher death rate than a tanks-and-carbombs national emergency? Police routinely planting toy guns on kids they've murderd? Something is deeply, deeply wrong there and the rest of the US should stage an intervention.
Every major American city has its share of violent, drug- or gang-based crime. That's not to diminish it, but unless you are actively involved in those trades or unfortunate enough to be caught up in it by proximity, it likely will never visit you. It's a shame because there are risks everywhere (suburbanites think nothing of climbing in their cars everyday to hop on the highways where 30,000 people die every year) but we're so bad in general at evaluating them.
Frankly, it doesn't bother me that Baltimore's reputation is somewhat tarnished, because that just makes it all the more appealing to live here and know that there is great art, great music, a vibrant technology and hacking scene, lots of smart young people, and friendly neighbors to enjoy. Now if we could just get more bike lanes and some better frickin' public transit ...
I'll cherry-pick one line. "There's a lot of fundamental issues, ranging from food deserts to lack of public transportation among the poorer areas."
Food deserts in Baltimore? Like the Mondowmin Mall that was destroyed by residents during the Freddie Gray riots? And the companies that tried to rebuild and provide in the neighborhood, only to be robbed constantly to the point that companies gave up for not being able to guarantee workers'safety?
And public transport, in areas where cabbies fear to go, buses take hours, and electric scooters and bikes are routinely dumped in the harbor? Vandalism runs rampant. Bus seats are sliced open, gang members threaten riders, etc.
I hate what poor Baltimore has become. Yuppie white-collar Baltimore thrives, just not in these areas. 35 yrs ago I love going to Balt to play tourist. Nice people, Inner Harbor, restaurants, stores... Employed so many people. Corrupt city government at all levels, corrupt cops, and promotion of a victim mentality are some of the things that brought it down. Baltimore is screwed in general, by its own actions.
>Baltimore is the smallest it's been since WWI (for a few years now, to a rounding error)
That's not quite the full picture. While population has mostly decreased in the last 70+ years, the rate of decrease has slowed substantially in the last couple decades, and is starting to increase.
Actually, Baltimore's population looks like it's just starting to break through PG's "trough of sorrow". See plot at the bottom of this link :
If it's in Baltimore, then yes, it's in Baltimore. Why wouldn't it count? If a foreigner says, "America is unsafe" and you say, "Well, my suburb is safe," can they say, "Oh, that's not America"?
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