Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

The linked post is in response to "Passkeys: A loss of user control?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35854216

Unfortunately, it doesn't directly address the issue of the iCloud keychain requirement.



sort by: page size:

> The problem with iCloud keychain for me is that I don't only use Apple devices

If I ever need to sign into something on a non-Apple OS, I look up the desired iCloud KeyChain-stored password on my iPhone, then manually retype it on the other device.

I feel that gives me extra security.


> Passkeys on iPhone require that you use iCloud Keychain. If you don’t have iCloud Keychain turned on when you try to save a passkey, you’ll be asked to turn it on. Passkeys also require that two-factor authentication is enabled for your Apple ID.

Nope, sorry. Enshittification makes this entire concept, as-presented, a non-starter.


Does there need to be work on webauthn for it? (maybe some wording sugggestions around "resident keys" which I think are meant to be persistent and within a singleTPM or such, but no technical constraints beyond that afaik).

My understanding was passkeys was just Apple Marketing(tm) around their implementation and integrating it with iCloud/keychain?


> to clarify, if my user set up passkey on their iPhone and that's the only method of authentication for my website, they just wouldn't be able to sign in if they lost that iPhone?

That used to be the case. Since iOS 16 they are also synced via the iCloud Keychain: "Passkeys on iPhone require that you use iCloud Keychain. If you don’t have iCloud Keychain turned on when you try to save a passkey, you’ll be asked to turn it on. Passkeys also require that two-factor authentication is enabled for your Apple ID."

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/sign-in-with-passkeys...


The problem with iCloud keychain for me is that I don't only use Apple devices, otherwise it might do the trick (except for TOTP 2FA stuff).

I'm trying Bitwarden now and it seems to be ok. Maybe it's time for a change.


If you know of a way to export a passkey from iCloud Keychain to a non-Apple device, please do share it!

Otherwise I'd call that lock-in as well.


You can, Apple has an extension for iCloud Keychain.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/icloud-passwords/p...


Yes, but keychain is not there on the online portal of iCloud, which wouldn't be helpful if you're on different OS.

iCloud Keychain is Safari-only.

I cannot fathom how terrifyiny it is to be using iCloud Keychain. Would honestly rather become a new customer with Lastpass over that.

Short answer: no.

Longer answer: iCloud Keychain is end-to-end encrypted credential storage, and its workflow is:

Need password -> Secure system hook to Keychain -> Keychain requests unlock via (face/finger/passphrase as appropriate) -> Password decrypted and auto filled.

There are also third-party options, which can nominally use NFC keys[0] as auth factors, but I’m not currently aware of any that actually do.

Personally, I use 1Password, because I’ve still got a Windows box in my world, and need something cross-platform, and since I’m paying for it, I know it’s the product and not me.

[0] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/authenticationserv...


>> Apple has described Passkey as a new kind of credential in the iCloud keychain. The technology is based on the Web Authentication API (WebAuthn), a rapidly emerging standard that uses public key cryptography instead of passwords for authenticating users to websites and applications.

Whatever "based on webauthn" means...Let's hope it's not just a buggy implementation of WebAuthn as they did with OpenID Connect


I will tell my family to use iCloud Keychain the day when it works across all major browsers and OSes. Or at least that they provide an API to sync with other password managers.

iCloud Keychain works great for me. Although, if I could change one thing, it would be to add a dedicated iOS app, instead of having to go to Settings > Safari > Passwords.

I don't know about 1Password, but IIRC the iCloud keychain is laughable security, with easily brute forceable pin-based security that can be performed at Apple HQ without your knowledge.

Apple has keychain linked to an icloud account but it's subpar of a password manager at best. Most mac people who I know that are techy just use lastpass.

I use iCloud keychain - has there been any reason to suspect this is an idiotic move, especially when coupled with twofactor auth on important sites?

Really important stuff is of course handled in other ways..


Not really, you need another device to share icloud keychain

> 3. The GUI is buried in System Settings. Heaven forbid you need search it's only a simple 37 clicks away!

Safari > Preferences > Passwords

Would love to have iCloud Keychain in other browsers, though.

next

Legal | privacy