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Like others have said, this would be less of a problem if Tesla relied on LIDAR like others. Tesla uniquely has this problem that's unsolveable because it's relying on cameras only.


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Tesla cars don’t have LiDAR right? That’s why they are so susceptible to this problem. Visual sensors only.

It’s a solved issue, but Tesla doesn’t use LIDAR so it will never be solved for them.

I'm very curious how a LIDAR based system would have faired here. It very much looks like problem that would only appear with a limited vision-only system like Tesla has.

That all seems like a big stretch based upon some big assumptions to me. It is far from conclusive that LIDAR alone would make the difference in cases like this, due to the way sensors have to be fused together to handle these kinds of scenarios.

There are fair criticisms around Tesla's marketing and implementation, but I don't think "they should already have lidar on there" is really one of them.


You deserve some up-votes.

Tesla famously doesn't use LIDAR, saying cameras (possibly with parking radar) are good enough.

Here's a nice summary: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/29/tesla-google-disagree-l...


This is exactly why we need LIDAR.

Tesla has been very stubborn about avoiding LIDAR and this is what happens as a consequence. The rest of the self-driving scene fundamentally relies on LIDAR to get things working. Believe me, if cameras were sufficient people wouldn't use LIDAR . LIDAR is expensive. I have spoken to quite a few people in the field and the lack of LIDAR in Tesla vehicles baffles them.

Radar is not a substitute for LIDAR. Sound is really high latency and has terrible resolution.

I would like to see how often things like these happen with Waymo.


There are no LIDARs in Tesla cars. That's part of their problem.

Somehow I doubt this problem is as simple as "add a LIDAR" considering there's probably at least one smart person at Tesla who has thought of that idea. Sure you might be right, but my impression is that the 1 in a million cases will still exist.

Tesla would be lucky if the extent of its challenges were having enough cameras pointing in the right direction. Tesla handicapped itself by only developing its driving systems with cameras and not lidar.

Personally, the problem is more fundamental.

You can see the tram on the screen so the Tesla is aware of it. It just f@cked up the response to it.

Lidar wouldn't solve that.


AFAIK Tesla uses cameras instead of LIDAR because LIDAR, by itself, will not be able to tell you what a thing is. It cannot tell you, for example, whether the thing standing at the side of the road is a stationary trash can or a human about to cross the road. Hence you have to solve vision anyway. And if you have to solve vision, you might as well go all in on cameras.

Yeah, world of difference between having Lidar or not. Tesla demonstrably has issues detecting objects with their cameras.

As far as I know, no car manufacturer ships cars equipped with LIDAR. Nor do they seem to have a camera setup as extensive as Tesla. So I fail to see how Tesla has painted itself into a corner. The worst case is, that they are not reaching full autonomy with the current hardware setup. It certainly would be a big marketing blunder if they don't, but if necessary they can add LIDAR to the production, if they choose to.

Yep. It's clear that lidar isn't literally needed. That said, I think the argument just shifts to "the cameras on a Tesla aren't good enough either."

That's also just a shot from the hip, weasely sort of argument but it's harder to dismiss outright.


I don't think Tesla is truly anti-lidar, per se. In fact, I think if it was a practical technology they would add it to their toolbox.

But it's not practical. Lidar is currently EXTREMELY expensive.

And visual is better. It sees everything in all directions, and 99% of the same depth information lidar provides can be determined by two images separated in time.

As to safety, putting a bunch of inexpensive cameras on a car people can afford is way better than doubling the price of a car and making it unaffordable, just for some theoretical benefit beyond visual.

(teslas already have radar, long-range sonar and 8 cameras)


Tesla does not use lidar, only regular cameras.

Tesla already has RADAR. Why would they need LIDAR?

The issue isn't with the sensors, but rather the system reacting to sensor data.


AFAIK, tesla doesn't use lidars. This one has at least 2 lidars, so there's that.

My guess is that there is so much technical debt that adding LIDAR is a tough choice for TESLA. They would need to throw out all the visual only data they have to-date and start over.
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