Same, while it's blatantly clear that Reddit is trying to kill 3rd party apps, I don't get the sentiment that this is being misrepresented at all. The audio gives me a very strong "would be a shame if someone would stir up trouble, $10M can make it all disappear" vibe, just as how the CEO interpreted it.
The part I’m outraged about is that the CEO of Reddit was caught in a lie about how 3P app developer tried to “blackmail” them and when said developer released the audio it’s clear that never happened and now Reddit is doubling down on dragging this developers name through the mud still.
You need to take into consideration the fact that this person had already created a large amount of negative press around this API issue. This means that people at Reddit were already feeling defensive, so when someone said something very similar to a threat then it was more likely to be perceived as a threat.
The reason why this is so alien to so many people is because they refuse to have empathy for a CEO. Reddit is filled to the brim with populist rhetoric about eating the rich. CEOs are profit robots, they don’t have emotional states of mind, duh.
All of this makes complete sense.
I couldn’t care less what happens to Reddit but it sure is interesting to watch everyone get so bent out of shape about a fucking website!
Yea the CEO's response was tone deaf and not tactful at all.
However, it seems insane that people are complaining about this for the following reason:
1. Reddit is not profitable, it is literally bleeding money.
2. No Reddit = No 3P apps to access Reddit.
3. The discussion that should be had is whether it is sustainable for Reddit to keep running it's servers and whether the recent decisions are made in favor of additional growth or survival.
I'm not a user of Apollo, and honestly have been perfectly fine using old.reddit.com on both mobile and desktop.
That said, while I realize it's just his side of the story, the Apollo developer comes across as imminently reasonable and rational (and he apparently has the receipts to back it up), while Reddit comes across as embodying typical corporate greed. On a related note, I think everyone should understand that, in the long term, "Don't be evil" is simply impossible for large corporations - the incentives are just too strong to prioritize short/medium term revenue growth over user experience.
In any case, while I don't think the people shouting "I'm done with Reddit" will make much of a dent in Reddit's overall usage numbers, I personally am deleting my account and blocking reddit on my devices. If anything I think this drama gave me a nice little push to take more control over my time that will make me happier in the long run.
It’s justified outrage. I’m assuming you think because reddit is a “silly” website that it’s okay for this kind of behavior. But it’s really not, because there’s a lot of serious discussion that takes place and the CEO doing something like calls into question the integrity of the content.
There's no hand to overplay here anymore - the app is shutting down, and the author made it clear that is the intention. While the verbiage could've been different, that doesn't really matter. In these kinds of conversations Reddit folks could've asked for clarification, not assume bad intent (which they did, but then misrepresented).
Apollo's leverage was "We help keep power users on your platform, and keep them happy." And, as it turns out, while their numbers are not necessarily large, they are also some of the loudest and with most influence (see how many subreddits joined the blackout). What the outcome of this will be is to be seen, but it's a very shortsighted take from Reddit, in my own humble opinion.
I'm not sure what timeline you're exactly trying to prove or disprove. It makes sense to me that he'd make a post describing a call with Reddit, after he had a call with Reddit. He doesn't have to describe exactly everything he describes, but fact is: Reddit is claiming he is costing them 20 million dollars per year, he suggested a buy-out for half that. You have to actually prove he tried to threaten them, because the non-threat explanation makes perfect sense - because of course the developer of an app would make posts about the status of communications regarding these changes!
If I'm missing something you're alluding to in the beginning I'd appreciate an explicit explanation :)
Even if he's "right" what "Spez" has done here is pure idiocy.
Even if Reddit comes out of this largely unharmed, why did they even take the risk? Why didn't they just incrementally increase API pricing or implement policies that slowly kill off 3rd party apps one at a time? What he's doing is simply bad from a strategical perspective.
But further, this event has put me off ever wanting to invest in Reddit post-IPO. "Spez" seems approaching conflict like a child in an argument with their parents might. Even if you like Reddit's product I don't know how anyone in their right mind would invest in a company where a child is calling all the shots. The dude edits comments to pwn people he doesn't like, he lies, he's comes off as arrogant and entitled. It's just so unprofessional.
If anyone else was in charge I'd have assumed they wanted the controversy.
I'm also honestly perplexed how many people didn't think it was a threat.
I initially even thought the outrage at Reddit's CEO was because he got caught on tape asking for $10 mil to 'skip off into the sunset' like a mobster, only to realize it was the Apollo dev LOL
3p app dev and mods spread narrative which doesn't stand trivial fact checking, and majority believes in what they want to believe without digging into details.
> you believe Reddit is in the right here
I didn't say anything like that. Reddit is private for profit company, owns platform and content and acts to maximize long term profit.
I love that the CEO calls the users voicing their displeasure "noise".
When those users voice opinions on other things, it's called content. When those users voice their opinions against reddit, it's noise.
Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is.
The very people that give your platform its value are revolting against you, and you think it's noise.
What's your product? What do you create? In what way will Reddit thrive only with what you put into it? Where do you think the content you lace your ads between comes from?
Most cases you're probably thinking about are of CEOs of big companies issuing CYA-statements that minimize legal attack surface. Here, the guy just exposed himself completely. Also Reddit is not Goldman Sachs; it's value is directly proportional to how much people like the company, and Reddit finds itself in the middle of another funding round.
I do see a great potential for bad consequences here.
There's even more context about how this CEO managed the business in a reddit thread in response to those tweets as well, which includes some detailed and revealing comments from the developer:
Hard to fathom the stupidity, but the arc of this (Huffman's statements, including the dishonest and the just plain "tells") and Verge interview yesterday suggest that the reason for the line in the sand killing Apollo, RIF, etc. is jealousy / spite.
Except, here, it's not just some jacket and a couple of people. It's some perhaps dozens of $millions made by a few app devs against a $multi-billion IPO and access and usefulness of a key site on the internet (e.g., inability of many to access valuable info and communities for days, now).
Something personal like this interfering with the IPO, and activities of so many beyond that, is a monumental failure of judgment. Combined with Huffman's past history of dishonesty and ineptness in multiple areas (including making Reddit profitable after 7+ years at the helm in this current round), seems like the best solution to the problem at this point would be removing him from the CEO position.
(Obviously, this seems easy from the outside, but I have no idea how easy / practical this would be in the "full picture")
Could this have something to do with reddit's co founder speaking against CISPA and calling out major tech companies? [1] Considering reddit played a big role in killing SOPA, CISPA backers feel threatened?
Even if it was a threat, I don’t see why that’s a problem. Reddit is a multibillion dollar business. At that scale businesses routinely threaten each other - I.e., “If you sue us over patent A we will sue you over patents B, C, and D”. Apollo saying “If you move to kill my business I will deploy my consumer goodwill against you” is a completely reasonable thing to do.
1) Ego and emotion are driving decisions at reddit
or
2) Reddit's leadership has run the numbers and genuinely thinks it will benefit their profitability plans if the users reacting negatively to these changes all leave. This is well past the point of just killing 3rd party apps because the API changes alone would have accomplished that.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence." What do you do when incompetence would be unbelievable in scope and malice would be unbelievably incompetent.
This is almost entirely a "management / PR debacle". A very easily avoidable debacle, I'm fairly sure, if they had simply brought in the right people or person (even) to help them through the process.
A number of Huffman's statements, seemingly tinged with bitterness / resentment and broadcasting a sense of "unfairness" (i.e., that third party apps have been profitable but Reddit itself has not), have been laughably unprofessional. And I'm not even writing about the tit-for-tat potentially libelous completely lacking in understanding of relevant LAWS crap.
This is not remotely 'C-suite' 'level' messaging / behavior. Particularly for a company that put in a target of $15 billion valuation back in 2021.
Honestly, I will say, I feel a little bad for Huffman, at this point. He's clearly out of his depth. I suspect there is some pressure that has shown up / backstory that created a sense of serious urgency starting some months ago, and the management team at Reddit figured they could handle this process &/ want(ed) to demonstrate competence. So, they have been forging ahead w/ trying to line everything up. Some have cited "ChatGPT", and, of course, there's always the rising interest rates being a potential issue ... nevertheless, they've created substantial bad sentiment among some of the most important users & devs at a particularly BAD time.
Of course, this may well not derail an IPO, the site too much, etc., in the short run. But, it's ludicrously bad management - examples more likely by the day to show up in future business courses. A SOCIAL MEDIA site bungling MESSAGING, possibly catastrophically, and pissing off some of the people MOST WILLING to contribute to financial health (almost certainly) and MOST INTERESTED in the site continuing to be viable!
They really ought to consider, if they haven't done so already, getting some small team of 'crisis PR' or 'management advisors' or something in, with expertise in the various areas they are clearly having massive issues with right now. Simply doing that, and having Huffman indicate (externally) a degree of 'stepping aside' so that things can be righted, could defuse some of the serious negative sentiment they have now generated.
reply