Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

How would such a joint-coordinated effort work? Is such collusion possible at this scale?


sort by: page size:

It could be coordination but unlikely to be collusion, some of the FAANG already made that mistake

Never forget the Manhattan project. Mass collusion being difficult isn't necessarily a 100% certainty that it's not occurring.

It'd take quite a bit of money, though, this.


Isn't that called collusion?

Collusion's another thing all together, and not the thing you're replying to. Complicated, as always, but in short the scenario you describe might very well be illegal.

Collusion of multiple parties meant to verify each other.

Neat work, but doesn't behavior require colluding to be considered collusive? Otherwise this is just another neat equilibrium.

I wonder what constitutes collusion?

Isn't that collusion?

So tacit collusion?

Here is some back of the envelope math that I did: Assume you have two groups who are each 100% focused on a cause which the other group has no opinion of.

n = people in each group

b = individual vote budget

Each Group Votes Independently: n * sqrt(b) votes

If a group colludes s.t. group A gives (1/2)b votes to group B's issue and vice versa you get: 2 * n * sqrt((1/2)b)) votes which simplifies into Sqrt(2) * n * sqrt(b).

Yet coordinating between these two groups becomes more difficult and costly, growing somewhere between n (perfect coordination) and n^2 (total decentralization). Thus, regardless of how you coordinate it will always be more expensive than the influence you gain which grows at sqrt().

Even in this simple assumption collusion becomes a negative value decision.


It may be illegal but it's hard to prove collusion.

It certainly doesnt require whole teams of people. It requires a few senior managers to be in on it.

The just world hypothesis is a powerful thing.


Collusion is a secret cooperation or deceitful agreement in order to deceive others. The plan you suggest is not deceiving anybody. It represents an political agreement and cooperation.

Alice and Bob are making a good deal. Well working democracy should involve maximum amount of deliberation and deal making. It's a good thing. If you want more of that kind of deal making votes should be visible though (quadratic voting between representatives in parliament might work the way you suggest).


One might even say collusion ;)

You don't really need collusion for this to work :)

You still would need just 1 participant, it's the computation part that would be open to any number participants in order to reduce the possibility of collusion.

Some people don't like lying about what they are doing, even if they can't get caught. Small scale cooperation between honest people would probably work for that reason. On a large scale, it probably wouldn't be very efficient, but insofar that both sides would defect or cooperate at roughly the same rate, you would still expect it to be somewhat beneficial if the cooperation rate is nonzero (but maybe not enough to be worth the trouble).

You're thinking of a cartel. Just sharing information can be collusion even if the parties haven't agreed to form a cartel.

This might be my misunderstanding, but isn't that pretty much the definition of collusion?
next

Legal | privacy