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Yes, Facebook's and Instagram's business operations are fundamentally accountable to American lawmakers, and thus voters, in a way TikTok is not.
No, they are accountable in the same way. You pass laws that restrict corporate behaviour, and then you fine/ban applications that don't follow them.
What you don't do is write a 'TikTok sucks so it's banned' law, while permitting the same problematic behavior from other vendors.
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The major problem with TikTok[1] is that it disrupts an American oligopoly on public mindshare, and the US is afraid of it for the same reason that CCP is afraid of Facebook, or the CCCP[2] was afraid of jazz music and Hollywood.
[1] The other major problem with TikTok is that Facebook and Twitter and another major tech company are scared of it, and instead of competing, are very interested in lobbying until it goes away.
> Why are legislators so focused on banning TikTok, rather than regulating whatever it is that TikTok does that they don't like?
Because a foreign company succeeded in the US. If Tiktok had simply done what the US wanted, and done a fire sale to a US company, Tiktok would be welcomed with open arms and there isn't a privacy violation the company could commit that would get it into real legal trouble. Tiktok would be deeply embedded in society and not having it would be like not having a telephone number.
The Tiktok situation is what US companies face around the world when they enter a foreign market and dominate (see: Facebook/Google and GDPR). Those countries suddenly discover they have principles and vigorously enforce them. This is just the first time that the US has been walloped so badly in this game that it's been forced to discover principles, too.
Regulating what Tiktok does that they don't like is too hard, we might end up harming US companies that do the exact same things. So the lazy workaround is to make noise about the principles but then just target the company directly.
> For example in the US, when TikTok became too popular, politicians quickly reacted to avoid having a major social network that was backed by a foreign country. Legitimately in the name of consumer protection, of course, but clearly also other interests. Funny how the US very selectively protects its consumers.
> Another concern is that TikTok’s algorithms could be influencing its users in ways that might benefit China. I guess I can see this, but I’m not sure.
I think this is the heart of the issue. Ironically, I think it didn't necessarily help TikTok's case when they showed a message to their US users asking them to contact their legislative representatives, and that's exactly what they did:
So Congress got to experience, first-hand, an example of TikTok's power to influence Americans' behavior, which is probably just the thing they were being warned about by national security professionals.
So what? We shouldn't try to close the TikTok hole just because there are others?
TikTok is also at least partly unique in that it repeatedly lied to regulators.
> data brokers will sell data about every American to anyone, anywhere
Data brokers still have less power than TikTok because TikTok can propagate influence campaigns. It's a black box with a bad actor operating inside of it.
> Plenty of American companies have engineering teams in China or countries with strong ties to China.
Which ones are as large and influential as TikTok? Which are able to algorithmically manipulate tens of millions of children without any external oversight?
> banning a single app will allow policymakers to pat themselves on the back while ignoring the larger issue
You could have made the same argument when they banned Huawei, and yet here we are: still not ignoring the larger issue.
Banning TikTok would set a (good) precedent about consequences for lying about CCP affiliation and data exfiltration.
> Why are legislators so focused on banning TikTok, rather than regulating whatever it is that TikTok does that they don't like
There are two issues with TikTok: privacy and national security. The latter is what this is about. (Related to e.g. our foreign media ownership rules.)
The federal legislation is trying to create an extensible system for forcing divestiture based on requirements you describe. This is more ham fisted.
> Not sure why you're discounting the potential for foreign influence campaigns from reducing the accountability your government has to you.
I don't discount that potential. I'm certain it exists. I'm also certain that it exists on youtube and facebook and twitter and reddit and will continue to influence US politics long into the future. Yet the US government has never once spoken about banning facebook and youtube or any other platform doing exactly the same things as TikTok, they're focused only the threat of the one Chinese platform while allowing China, Russia and anyone else to influence Americans though US owned platforms. They're even fine with letting China influence Americans using TikTok as long as TikTok is owned by a US company.
I'm just not buying the argument that TikTok represents a threat to our democracy any greater than the threat posed by youtube or twitter. I don't see how taking away our freedom to access/use a Chinese platform that isn't violating any US law and isn't doing anything different than similar US platforms are doing is really helping to protect us here. The US congress telling Americans what software we can have installed on our own devices, and preventing us from accessing platforms in other countries seems much more likely to lead us down a slippery slope than one Chinese owned social media platform being allowed to do what all the US owned platforms are doing.
> There's a difference between playing along with what the US government wants and having to have a parallel chain of command with CCP "party cells" in your company.
That's exactly what I'm saying. TikTok needs to play ball (be sold in the US) or get banned.
It's one thing to fight against various regulations like Google did in your example, but when you're actively seeking to undermine the nation, that's a whole different ballgame.
> Absolutely no, because if you are making first steps, you need generalize approach and not selectively target companies
This is an engineering mindset. I’m not aware of any other social media platform that is currently in TikTok’s position wrt affiliation with a geopolitical adversary. I’m not arguing that there shouldn’t also be a comprehensive solution, but right now, it seems clear that TikTok stands alone in terms of why it’s being targeted.
> What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception?
This isn’t about our rights to call our congresspeople. Of course everyone calling has that right.
At issue is the source of that influence. Outside of the TikTok conversation, such influence is “foreign interference”, “election meddling”, etc. The concern boils down to: are we comfortable with a major foreign government holding the keys to one of the biggest megaphones in existence?
It’s a brilliant play, really. “Direct” interference in the form of targeted advertising and misinformation is something most users find themselves hostile towards. But a social media app that everyone loves is the perfect Trojan horse and in a hypothetical situation where influence was applied in an effort to achieved darker goals, the CCP’s biggest defenders will be their targets. Hypothetically.
>So Congress got to experience, first-hand, an example of TikTok's power to influence Americans' behavior, which is probably just the thing they were being warned about by national security professionals.
Except this is exactly the same power every popular domestic company has, including every other social media platform. It wasn't even the only time a company got customers to protest legislation on their behalf (see FOSTA/SESTA).
TikTok's users weren't brainwashed by Chinese propaganda and following some Manchurian Candidate trigger to launch an attack on American infrastructure, they were voluntarily participating in the democratic process. That isn't a national security issue, it isn't even illegal.
> Yes. If there is determined to be harm, I see no reason to protect them.
But should the US government, given the current developments, ban Twitter and/or Facebook? That is what I'm asking.
Because they are quite literally doing the same as TikTok. Now, is TikTok spying for China? Except for a few reports, there is no proof of it. In fact, the US government would not ban TikTok if they sell their business to US companies.
So either TikTok does not spy on their customers for China, or they do, and the US government wants to have control over data illegally harvested.
Either way, forcing TikTok hand is not a move made to protect US citizens.
> TikTok is a social network that could not be made by an American company, due to its complete disregard for free speech and embrace of censorship.
This is nonsense. All the social networks have things they will remove and ban your account for, from spam and CP upwards (Instagram and FB being notoriously touchy about sexuality). It seems that TikTok is heavier about politics than most, but censorship is not a boolean.
> Another issue is that TikTok relies on advertising for revenue and if US companies are banned from doing business with TikTok, they would need to run the app at a loss in the US at least. They could use their revenues from the rest of the world and the Chinese government to survive in the US.
Wouldn't work. US is 10% of user base but half of TikTok's revenue. The company is unprofitable so it needs all the revenue and revenue growth it can get.
>Not clear how that would affect TikTok sponsored influencers.
> There you have it. I've seen TikTok videos go viral being really critical of the US government including its foreign policy. The kind of video that would just be invisible or outright banned from Youtube or Facebook video. That's why they want to get rid of it.
Videos such as? Seems to me that the kind of videos banned on Youtube, Twitter or Facebook aren't really the ones that are really critical of the US government, especially the executive branch.
>The idea that TikTok could drive the erosion of democratic processes in the US strikes me as silly, especially considering domestic forces like militarization and economic stagnation.
With respect, have you been asleep for the past 7 years? The existence and tangible effects of foreign disinformation and manipulation campaigns are known and well-studied by this point. It's not unique to the US, the tragic situation in Myanmar would likely not have occurred without the existence of Facebook..
> I'm actually all for a TikTok ban as long as we also ban other social media. I think it's all toxic. But the excessive focus on TikTok is just yellow peril/red scare nonsense in pursuit of a new cold war.
> it isn't controlled by a company that is ultimately beholden to the US government.
The issue isn't so much that TikTok isn't beholden to the US government. The issue is that TikTok is beholden to the Chinese Communist Party. If TikTok were Japanese or Korean or something, this wouldn't be a problem.
> (e.g. we are talking of banning Tik-Tok precisely because Google, Facebook and such will kill any attempt to make an innovative social platform in the US)
Precisely? Why are you so sure?
You are aware of China's ownership, control, ability, and motive to use Tiktok for state purposes, whether surveillance, influence, disinformation, or otherwise. This is the biggest stated risk I've seen across various media (at least what I read; I'm not on Facebook). You disagree?
Perhaps you have evidence that the claims above are false? Do you think these claims are manufactured by US social media companies to defend their turf? This would seem the less plausible claim in my view.
Three articles, one quite different than the rest:
No, they are accountable in the same way. You pass laws that restrict corporate behaviour, and then you fine/ban applications that don't follow them.
What you don't do is write a 'TikTok sucks so it's banned' law, while permitting the same problematic behavior from other vendors.
----
The major problem with TikTok[1] is that it disrupts an American oligopoly on public mindshare, and the US is afraid of it for the same reason that CCP is afraid of Facebook, or the CCCP[2] was afraid of jazz music and Hollywood.
[1] The other major problem with TikTok is that Facebook and Twitter and another major tech company are scared of it, and instead of competing, are very interested in lobbying until it goes away.
[2] The USSR.
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