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I really feel this, and it is so disappointing. Since 2012 my primary development machine has been a MacBook Pro, and my 2020 M1 MacBook Pro is maybe my favorite workstation ever (they brought back the good keyboard, the M1 processor is so fast, and the battery life is insane—even at three years old I will get through half a day of work and zoom calls and only be down to 80%).

But at the same time, I see a slow creep of operating system and interface changes. Especially worrying is the push to make macOS look and operate more like iPadOS. I've loved macOS as a development platform because it's Unix-y enough, but with a polished desktop interface where everything just works without fiddling and tweaking.

Perhaps I'm missing something in their vision or perhaps I'm being too myopic, but I don't understand the obsession with adopting mobile/tablet-style interactions and restrictions.

Will I still be able to plan on using this operating system for development in the next 12 years? I've begun revisiting Linux as my desktop operating system on the side, because I fear the answer is no.



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What's more worrying for me is that entire product categories are either left abandoned (Mac Pro) or updated with inferior products (latest MacBook Pro), and it seems that Jony Ive's form-over-function approach encounters no opposition within the company. We lose good functionality for no good reason, other than products become "simpler" and "more pure".

This in itself would not be a problem for me, if it weren't for the lack of competition. Mac OS is so far ahead in terms of "getting things done" and "just working" that it isn't even funny. And yes, I do know, I also regularly use Windows (10) and Linux (Ubuntu 16 LTS). I feel locked in: both "competing" platforms are huge time-wasters for me. I know some people feel different — past discussions have shown that most people do fewer things with their computers than me (for example, if all you need is a web browser, Ubuntu is a great choice).

Now that Apple is abandoning me as a customer (I'm not the mainstream), I feel squeezed: where do I go from here? What's even worse is that the cost of entry is now so high: developing an environment that works, and then convincing developers to embrace it is nearly impossible. And the only companies that have the resources to do it (Microsoft and Google) do it badly.


I've looked at the trajectory of Apple these past few years with mounting bitter-sweetness. At its best, MacOS really felt like the best of Unix combined with the consumer focus alluded to in the article. I still adore the craftsmanship of the latest Macbooks, but my 2015 Macbook felt like the apex of Mac's design. It was the kind of device that was such a pleasure to develop on. You could leverage the power of Unix in a UI designed with thoughtfulness and care. It reminded you that power and accessibility to end-users can be balanced. And now that balance has tipped away from the power-user, the developers, to the end-user, and in doing so I question my commitment to this extraordinary ecosystem. Why develop on a platform that contends with me every step of the way? Because the users and the money are there? That was never what brought me to the Macbook.

EDIT: I suppose most users in the Apple ecosystem aren't on Macbooks, but iPhones.


I'm not an Apple hater, I use a MacBook Pro at work (funnily enough, either SSH remote linux server or running Linux VM through vagrant), for my personal machines I run 100% Linux. It is solid hardware, but I think the OS is becoming a hindrance to me as a developer. It seems like every iteration closes yet another door on the underlying UNIX base, making it harder and harder to get things working, Homebrew helps but seems like it needs more and more workarounds and often breaks with esoteric conflicts. Nowadays I just use OS X as a VM shell, so I might as well be using Windows. I don't use any Apple "apps", I never touch their cloud because of all the horror stories I've heard, and I fear in a couple of releases the OS is just going to be completely locked down so I'll have to move to Windows at work to get work done. The hardware is definitely the best in class, but the software is becoming unusable to me as a developer. I hope it means more linux usage but I'm not delusional and know that desktop linux is basically just a niche and probably always will be (which saddens me greatly). I think it's a shame Apple has taken this direction.

I feel the same about the rise of Macbooks in the dev community. A proprietary platform becoming a standard and excluding people having different use-cases.

I'm also surprised that no one (of significant voice) has voiced enough to pressure Apple to think about their developer user population. Everywhere I go I see devs using mac. I'm sure the reason behind this is 2 folds: supported hardware, x64 + Unix platform. So if they make the transition, say, in 2020, the dev world must be prepared by the end of 2019, I mean, from every toolchain to dev Apps. And this would seem quite a big endeavour, not that devs world moves slowly but the amount of work...

Is my anecdotal too far off?


It's just frustrating, I switched the household over to Apple devices when OSX came out, and now there really aren't any systems from Apple that look interesting to me.

I've been programming since before the (Unix) dawn of time, and Apple devices have been good development machines for me since OSX was released 18 years ago. I'm comfortable on Linux, but the Apple iOS devices and computers are all over my home and integrate well with my development machines. Furthermore, the family does well with MacOS, and they don't need IT help with their email, iPhone, music, homework, printing, etc. like they used to under Windows.

I'd love to see Apple make a system that supported upgradeable memory, SSDs, High capacity hard drives, graphics, and separate larger monitors, but that doesn't look like that will ever happen. By locking down the hardware to just certain configurations, the very successful stores can handle problems (hardware, software, and user related) at locations all over the world.

Even if Apple can't make the machines more upgradeable because of customer support issues, the new machines don't seem to be well designed for me. They have become too thin and too sleek and overpriced because of features I don't want (over sharp display, touchbar) and issues caused by the pursuit of sleekness and style (crap keyboards, thermal limits).

Lenovo (Thinkpads) offers thin, light, somewhat upgradeable, good looking laptops that are light to carry and easier to grip with great keyboards. I wish Apple could start with something like one of those and equip it with an Apple touchpad and MacOS.

I've been waiting and waiting for Apple to improve its line up (I'm writing this on a Mac Pro from 2013 with a nice 34 inch ultra-wide monitor). It looks like I'll never replace it. I know there are alternatives, my home/office are littered with computers, Thinkpads running Linux, Microsoft laptops, Dell Servers running FreeBSD, and homemade PCs running Windows (for gaming); but I'm going to miss using MacOS as my daily-driver.


That the Macs are not given as much attention doesn't surprise me. It seems 'fitting' that they would gravitate toward the current MacBook end of the spectrum considering that a huge amount of users don't really need much more than that. Cutting out the middle-ground (MacBook Air) makes a certain amount of sense.

But I expected that they'd keep a high-performance developer-focused MacBook (the Pro) for all those guys who are actually making the iOS/MacOS apps. And part of me hoped they'd show some love for that target audience.

On the other hand, who am I kidding. As I'm getting more and more into 'native' development and as my laptop is showing its age when I use Xcode, I'll probably eventually cave and get a MacBook Pro because I can't do my work without it.

It's just not nice, I guess. But then Apple isn't particularly known for being nice, so it makes business-sense. iOS/MacOS devs will still get their new machines, even if they end up feeling fleeced.


Apple's hardware these days is exceptional but the software left wanting in comparison. MacOS feels like it's been taking two steps back for every step forward for a decade now. I run MacOS, Linux w/ i3, and Windows all every day, and outside of aesthetics & apple integration MacOS feels increasingly the least desired of the 3.

The same is true of the ipad which is just a miraculous piece of hardware constrained by an impotent operating system.


To be honest, before the release of Apple's M1 Macs in 2020, I thought that the Mac was on its way out, especially around 2017 when we had to endure many years of waiting for new desktop Macs (the Mac Mini had a long period between updates from 2014 to 2018, and the Mac Pro had an even longer period from 2013 to 2019). I still think with the gradual adoption of iOS UI/UX idioms by macOS and the growing adoption of SwiftUI, combined with the fact that Macs now run on Apple Silicon just like iPads, that eventually macOS and iOS will merge despite Apple's repeated claims to the contrary.

Still, I think this will be a major loss for longtime users of macOS who enjoyed roughly two decades of using a well-polished operating system that was unabashedly designed for desktop computing workloads, unlike Windows and some Linux desktops with their confused aims of trying to merge the desktop, mobile, and Web experiences. While iOS's success has been undoubtedly wonderful for Apple, in some ways the success of iOS was the worst thing to happen to the Mac. What hurts in particular is that there is no alternative with the polish of macOS and its ecosystem; it's all ports of Web apps and mobile apps from here on out, with the usability and flexibility issues inherent in these engineering decisions, and all running on platforms that support the moats that Microsoft, Apple, and Google built.

I saw the writing on the wall years ago and my daily drivers are now PCs running Windows 10 and FreeBSD. I don't work for Apple and I'm just one complainer on Hacker News, and so I have little control over the Mac's direction; the best I can do is vote with my dollars. But I'm hoping projects like helloSystem and ravynOS will gain traction and help keep the spirit of Mac OS X alive, and I'm working on my own side project that will explore ideas influenced by the classic Mac OS, OpenDoc, Smalltalk, Lisp machines, and Plan 9; basically, explorations of what could've happened if some of the dreams of early 1990s Apple researchers and engineers had been realized.


Unfortunately, I fear what Apple is doing and will do to macOS. The trend seems to be that they are making it into another walled garden, ala iOS. I can still run Linux, but I hate that Apple's main competitor on the desktop is lowering the bar so, so low, and exerting so little effort to keep them on their toes to make something that people continue to want.

I think the misstep by Apple was to focus so heavily on iPhones that they stopped paying attention to the developer experience on Mac. Look at the fucked Catalina release, the slow MacPro update cycle and the abandonment of the Mac Mini, the obscene SSD pricing (especially combined with the way Docker likes to eat gigs...), and yes, the shitty Macbook Pro keyboard and stupid touch bar. Lots of things that together add up to a poor developer experience.

Obviously, Mac doesn't need a subsystem for Linux because it's already a *nix and all the tools work there already. Microsoft was playing catch up, but they're starting to look pretty well caught up.

Now, this isn't to say Apple is doing poorly, obviously they make ungodly gobs of money and are usually the most valuable company in the world. My original comment was about developer mind share, though, which I think is swinging back towards MS after being thoroughly owned by Apple from, say, 2008-2016. By not making the developer experience a priority, I think Apple is losing ground that they didn't have to cede.


I'm more worried about the future of macOS personally.

For developers, the MacBook Pro is becoming less and less useful as Apple increasingly configures it for casual and business users. I've been hearing increasing grumbling about all the adapters and dongles you have to buy and carry. The prospect of no 1/8" jack is another step in this direction. I've noticed devs moving increasingly toward the lenovo/linux combo, or equivalent, as a result. I'm not sure if Apple realizes how important it is to their business to have developers choosing their laptops, or the loss when the tide starts pulling away. It's been a difficult line for Apple to walk... between offering what developers want, and what consumers want, but you actually need both for a full functioning ecosystem. They are now beginning to make it all a consumer and business line, and I think they don't realize the importance of the ecosystem. Very worrisome.

I have recently switched to Linux (ArchLinux)[1] after a not so happy ending with macOS. The new features that Apple keeps adding to macOS helps no developer and are consumer-oriented. I feel this is the new direction they are taking. As Apple gained momentum in the smartphone space, they want to capitalize that on the laptop market. And what's better than giving your users something they are already familiar with: iOS.

So macOS is slowly drifting to become iOS. While this might be good for your average consumer as she'll be comfortable manipulating the same patterns of the interface, for the developer it means less performance, less customization, more gatekeeping, etc...

In the future, I think there will be two types of OSes: A developer OS (probably a custom built Linux for the developer or the company) and a consumer OS. The divergence will be big enough that consumer OSes can no longer be used to do any useful programming (aside from programming for the said platform).

1: https://omarabid.com/apple-walled-garden


OSX/MacOS is still viable but it doesn't receive the attention it once did. It feels second-rate compared to the mobile OS. I get the feeling one day Apple is going to release the new MacBook and it will just be an iPad with a keyboard.

I've been noticing a trend toward linux among devs for a while now, so this will just hasten that. The lenovos are really sweet with linux, as an example, and I'm seeing them increasingly at programming events.

Apple has been moving it's product line towards catering to the idiocracy, anyways, so it's not surprise. Add to that the increasing loss of interest in iphone and devs moving to android, in spite of all it's problems, and you have a sea shift.

I think it's been an interesting dichotomy all along. There were the consumer apple products, and the professional ones. The professional products were used to build for the consumer ones. I think Jobs really understood the need to have a two pronged approach in this way. It seems that new management now is trying to unify it all, and the wind up is that apple will no longer be the cool dev's choice, and the result will be a rapidly declining ecosystem, offering, popularity, and, finally, revenue.


It seems like more and more of the work on MacOS is dedicated to propping up iOS instead of simply making a great desktop OS. As someone who does not use or want Apple's mobile devices, it's been hard to get excited about these last few releases.

I'm currently looking for a new dev machine and I'm looking at what's currently being offered by Apple which was my vendor of choice and I'm worried.

It looks like if I go with a new Macbook Pro for the next decade, I'm signing up to a device that will increasingly get locked down.

The direction of development appears to be iOS in a laptop form factor.

Don't get me wrong, I like having a phone, but I want a general-purpose computer too.

It's a bit sad in a way, I picked up my current machine because the sentiment at the time was that the Macbook Pro was a professional's machine and one of the groups of professional's that it would cater to was developers.

What Apple expected for that was those professionals being willing to pay at a higher price point to get that power. That expectation seems to be bearing out less and less these days.

I still want that deal. Just a little bit of shiny, but all the power that gets out of my way and I pay for it...

So I'm wondering, am I in a minority here? What do others in this ecosystem want? (and yes I'm fully aware that this ecosystem isn't very big)

Are people ok with their main dev machine being a more locked-down system? I see some people jumping into developing on iPad's in the cloud.

So I'm wondering am I the minority of a minority?

Or is there a chance that there are enough people who feel like I do that some company out there can serve our needs and make a decent bank doing it?

Or perhaps I'm mistaken =)...


"I can feel it Dave", except that it seems that Apple can't feel it. MacOS is like HAL oe one of those robots that you see in movies that wanders around doing things that no longer make sense. This appears true for hardware as well - I used to long for the latest MacBook and now I am relieved that my 2012 is hanging in there because I don't want to spend all that money for a bad keyboard. Think about that for a minute - 2012 vs 2019!

Apple should open source their OS. They would not longer have to waste their time and energy pretending that the MacBook market matters to them. Developers would be happy with them - its a win win situation!!

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