Why not? Do you ever anticipate getting a mortgage? If yes, then you probably should be.

While that is a lot of debt, it is nowhere the same as saying you have $500k of debt on credit cards. Credit cards are unsecured debt; it's debt with little or nothing behind it.

Mortgage debt, though, is a secured debt. In theory, you could sell the houses, maybe for more than you paid for them, and possibly or likely more than you owe on them (that is, you gain the equity). Of course, you could also be upside down, but you still have the property, and you could just sit on it, rent it out, and continue to make payments on it from rent (or whatever) until the market comes back.

Look, if I had enough money around, I'd maybe consider the gamble. But I don't want to buy property to sell it later, I just want to live somewhere. I'm not interested in placing bets on my salary, and I'm not interested in financial longterm-obligations. Maybe in 10 years I want a year off? What then? Maybe I want to change careers to something less intellectually demanding. Maybe I want to spend 50 hours a week with my kids. None of those are feasible if I need the salary. "No debt" is synonymous to freedom on so many levels in life design. The choice is not even close to me.

I make enough money not to worry about rent, even if it should substantially increase, which I don't see happening anyway, simply because then most people wouldn't be able to afford it and political change would become opportune in election-based systems.

>If you owned a house in London

Whats the point of even thinking about owning a house in London? Seriously. I come from uneducated parents that left me €0 and completely unprepared for life, so in my 20s, I first had to dig myself out of that crap. Now I make a good living, but I'm not rich, or filthy rich, or even wealthy. I have to actually make the money to pay that thing. Look at the development of real estate prices in the last 20 years and tell me that's a reasonable choice if I don't even intend to sell the property later (just to be stuck in the same situation again, with more cash, but in the same dilemma). It's pointless. I don't treat my lifetime-expenses as a game of assets, I opt for quality of life, which I don't achieve by giving it all to some property-owning entity who sells it to me at 3 times the price they paid a couple decades ago. I mean, you can justify doing so, but I don't see me being able to justify it.

But you are renting.

While renting isn't debt, it can be helpful to think of it as debt you have to pay every month (unless you plan to be homeless).

So you have 12N (where N is the number of years you think you might still live) of rent debt payments that you are committed to pay. If you transform that into mortgage payments, at least you're building equity. And it will only be 1230 payments (given a 30 year mortgage) so it is a bounded number unlike 12*N.

That's a huge assumption. There is implicit risk in debt: you might not be able to make payments due to you losing income in the future. If your income is gone, your investments might not be worth as much either, so those might not cover your debts.

There's also peace of mind. There's a psychological effect of having and paying debt.

Buying a house isn't for everyone, sure. But this is a serious misunderstanding of what "going into debt" is. You're not buying a TV you'll throw out in 5 years, you're buying an asset class that has a history of appreciating in value over 100+ years that you can get incredible leverage on. In the US and Canada, at least, buying a house for a decent deal (in "normal" times, not at insane prices) is a no-brainer investment.

You mention buying companies...that's just a different asset class, but the idea is the same. It's not valueless the moment you buy it, you now have an asset.

>Buying estate = de facto being in debt for the entire career and then some, plus having to pay all repairs, anything.

Do you think this is all happening for free as a renter? At what point in your life do you plan on not paying for shelter?

Or investing on margin.

how does this jive with

> I'm opting for...and real estate (with nice fixed-rate mortgage debt to purchase)

Honestly, I don't have a finical background. But isn't a mortgage just buying debt that is slowly paid off. I don't think real estate is a terrible strategy, but it does not always raise in value. 2008 was a reminder of that for a lot of people.

Because you're (hopefully) going to come out of the other side of those 30-40 years, regardless. In one case, you can have a house you own free and clear. In the other case, you're still paying rent to someone else.

And 30-40 years is the extreme. Paying just a little extra principal every month you can have the loan paid in well under 30 years.

Isn't this only true with the caveat that home prices remain relatively stable?

As anecdata, I was looking at a mortgage in SF recently (didn’t end up with one) and non-bank lenders offered me 2-3X the debt that a bank would offer, including rocket mortgage, which told me I could take out debt where the monthly payment was ~100% of my post-tax income (and 5% down). This was with no co-signer. I do have strong income and income growth potential (SWE in SF) but yikes I laughed at the guy on the phone when he told me the numbers because it was unreal.

Anyways I don’t have a mortgage and I really hope the availability debt to people absolutely crashes and takes housing prices with it.

Isn't buying taking out a mortgage putting you into debt?

Yes. Yes they are. Many people make a huge bet on the housing market with borrowed money, without even realizing what they're doing.

I can empathise. 10 years ago, I had friends in their early 20s "buying a house" (signing up to a debt of $1.2m+ dollars over 30-35 years for a $700k house), and could not see the value propositon for the emotional turmoil.

Looking back years later, they don't seem so stressed by it, but it's definitely affected their ability to make decisions around their job, relationships, social life, etc. But they've all made pretty strong profits (on paper, assuming they ever sell).

I bought a house for cash instead. The trade off of living further away is much better to me than feeling enslaved and not in control for decades.

Buy some land if you want - a small package in a small town 30 minutes past all the developments. You'll probably find once you've paid off the mortage in 5-10ish years, the area has built up and you're in a non rural position with a good block.

The reason people go into debt to buy houses is because everyone is using debt to buy houses, thus driving the prices up.

If mortgages were capped at 5-year terms, the price of houses would be a lot lower, which would be great for society - for the same reason that having cheaper electricity is great for society.

As someone who bought several houses without debt, I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. Please explain...

Sounds like a benefit to me. Debt is a tool that can bring huge benefits to people who know how to use it.

Most people who own homes have used debt to buy them. Almost everyone who owns more than one home has borrowed against equity in homes they already own to buy the others. The ability to do that is a clear benefit of property ownership.

Months away from this. Obviously each to their own, but I think I'll have a sense of achievement, security, and relief once it's gone. Due to sacrifices I've made we've managed to pay off a 25y mortgage in a little under 12y. I can't wait to be debt free and not at the mercy of bank interest rates and economic disasters. I can then start putting more aside for my kids.

Your mortgage is a liability, not an asset.