You shouldn't insult people just because you disagree with their point.
Your anecdotal experience isn't exactly meaningful here, especially when that's the only 'evidence' you include instead of the 'few hundred references' you supposedly have (read?).
I got 2 mRNA vaccines, and I got non-asymptomatic covid twice after getting the vaccines.
I'd like to see more discussion on this topic in an open, respectful manner. Your comment is the opposite of that.
Yes but where did I say anything to the contrary? If you don't have COVID, there is a 0% chance of you transmitting the disease. Regardless of if you've had it before or not, once you get the vaccine you now have a > 0% chance of transmitting the disease, and it is a statistically significant chance. All you're doing is posting articles that boast the proficiency and efficiency of the vaccine, which I never discounted. The focus here is that once you get the vaccine, you become a transmitter, doesn't matter that you have lower chance than someone who is unvaccinated. W.r.t someone who does not have COVID, they should take the same precautions against those who are vaccinated as they do for people who are not, and my post is pointing out the hypocrisy of the OP who seems to believe that since they are vaccinated, they are somehow safer to be around than someone who is unvaccinated, while to an unvaccinated person who does not have COVID, these two groups of people should be treated the exact same way.
I'm not talking about the vaccine itself killing people, and I don't believe the comment I replied to was either. I'm saying that more people have died from Covid after being vaccinated than have died from Covid after having gained natural immunity. Meaning they survived the first infection, got infected again, and then died from that second infection.
That isn't relevant to the discussion at hand in any way shape or form.
You're interjecting it because you want to talk about it because you're an antivaxxer.
It has no relevance outside of some narrow understanding of what happens during severe COVID itself and the mechanism behind why some people get very sick and most people do not.
And you're practicing sealioning acting like you're just innoccently interjecting.
“even if the “vaccines” did reduce the severity and number of deaths it was a win”
I said in another reply that I have “virus induced asthma”. A simple cold will cause my immune system to overact and cause me severe difficultly breathing. I was first in line for the vaccines and I did an MRNA booster before it was recommended in the US because I read what I thought were credible studies from other countries about needing it after the J and J one shot.
I’ve also said before that “I retired my wife” who was working as a school bus driver because I didn’t feel it was safe before the vaccine came out.
> The impact on the death rate and severe outcome of COVID is being seen even years later
I’m not disagreeing with that. You’re preaching to the choir. I am saying it was a messaging problem to call it a vaccine if it doesn’t prevent you from getting the disease.
We really need to be careful making claims like that. There is no evidence this is true and there is evidence that getting a vaccine gives additional protections even if you already had COVID.
I haven’t had covid, as far as I know. Of course I saw the recommendations to get the vaccine, but I didn’t see any smearing or slandering or conning, I don’t know what you’re referring to. The company I work for did allow vaccinated people to return to work before unvaccinated people, and to me that seemed like a prudent choice at the time, but the vaccine requirement was dropped at my work a long time ago. I’m sorry that your choice had unfairly negative consequences for you, especially if you felt bullied.
Please keep in mind that it doesn’t really matter if a lot of vaccinated people still got covid later. That was expected, because the ‘vaccine’ was not a covid cure. If the spread was slowed and the symptoms were reduced significantly, then the vaccine was successful. There has been lots of science on the unvaccinated, and it found that they died and were hospitalized from covid at much higher rates than vaccinated people. I believe there is plenty of science still happening on the secondary effects of the vaccine, so being unaware of it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. I’m not aware of “harm to many people” who took the vaccine. What harm are you referring to, and how many people were harmed, exactly? Did that harm happen less often or more often than to people who got covid? Just like with tinnitus, you can’t take anecdotes out of context when it happens to someone vaccinated if you don’t compare it to people who weren’t vaccinated.
BTW, while the covid vaccine was an untested vaccine at first (like all vaccines before trials), it did go through trials and it was not untested technology. mRNA therapies had been used in other non-covid trials for a decade, and tested against other infectious diseases for several years before the covid vaccine was developed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/
Think about it: at this point, we have more data on the effects of the covid vaccine than almost any other vaccine or drug in all of human history. Concerns about it being untested did maybe make sense in March of 2020, but it has now been thoroughly tested and so those concerns don’t make that much sense to hold on to anymore, right?
So I take it you weren’t very interested in talking about tinnitus?
Because the risk of e.g. dying of myocarditis from the virus still exceeds the risk of dying of myocarditis from the vaccine.
Particularly with the mRNA vaccines there isn't much in the vaccine that isn't in the virus already.
There has to be a name for this fallacy. It is like we're living in the dark ages where contracting covid is just "God's will" and it doesn't count in risk assessments, while no matter how small the risk is of the vaccine that is all that matters.
My brother got COVID before he (reluctantly) got vaccinated. He was basically dead (not to the point of hospitalization) for several days.
My girlfriend got vaccinated and boosted, caught COVID, was bed ridden for several days and then general malaise and tiredness for two weeks.
I got vaccinated and boosted, went to the same party my girlfriend was infected at, stood next to the same people that infected her, took her to the hospital to get tested because we didn't think it was COVID, and I never even got infected.
Anecdotes are literally useless when discussing these things. There's so many individual variations about how you respond to COVID, to the point where your experience is likely affected by how stressed you have been the month you caught it.
This is why the people who actually care about understanding the issue collect large amounts of data, and that data largely shows getting a vaccine to significantly reduce your chance of getting it, and your chance of dying from it.
Covid-19 vaccines don't prevent infection, and it is impossible to achieve herd immunity with them. These are facts, and they are relevant to the comment I was originally replying on.
The vaccines don't prevent people from getting covid, so why accumulate risks?
In any case, common sense says the natural coronavirus would be handled by your body in predictable ways versus the new mRNA engineered substance. Are you telling me since you got the vaccines, you actually think you're going to avoid getting COVID? If this is not what you think, then what the hell are you talking about?
I had the mRNA vaccines in mid '21. It was like any other shot, why risk covid if you can get the vaccine?
Point is, just because my experience with the vaccine was fine doesn't mean everyone's would be, and just because your experience with covid was like a mild flu doesn't mean everyone's would be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the two risks. And the evidence so far shows that the total risks of covid, even for a young, healthy person, multiplied by the likelihood of getting it, do outweigh the risks of the mRNA vaccines.
For children it's probably closer, at least in terms of acute risks. I expect the risks of chronic complications from covid are still enough to tip the scales, but I could be persuaded otherwise with more evidence. But you have to be willing to consider the evidence that exists, not just that which supports your priors.
[Novel mRNA vaccines] have been tested on literally hundreds of millions of adults with a tiny number of cases where the vaccine has been dangerous. The vaccines are medicine.
Covid has killed millions of people, and even when it doesn't kill, it can engender a long-term disability which massively reduces quality of life. Covid is a pathogen.
Are you seriously trying to equate these two ? Really ?
> The reason you're downvoted is you're bringing anecdotes to a "multiple large studies with millions of data points" fight.
My point wasn't about the anecdotes, but the fact that it isn't a risk comparison of being vaccinated or getting infected, but rather the risk of vaccination AND infection vs. infection.
And presumably being infected once is tantamount to vaccination.
If you're vulnerable there's an argument but from my vantage covid vaccination for the majority of healthy people is just needless and excessive exposure to spike protein.
Sounds like I triggered an academic. Do us a favor and get the COVID vaccines. It's "safe and effective" like running untested code directly on production.
I know a number of people who got COVID twice before the shots became an option as well. There never was any reason to think COVID would result in durable immunity, but some anti-vaccine have spread that as part of their general war on science. Lets me clear though, it was always propaganda with no basis in science (both anti-vaccine and political propaganda for different reason said things like that), nobody with any knowledge of infectious disease said something like that.
Vaccines, like other preventative measures, have externalities. Public health debates are often about whether those externalities are significant enough that individuals should be asked / pressured / forced to take actions that may be harmful to them. If you only talk about the effects of a vaccine on the vaccinated individual, you are not really participating in the debate.
Your anecdotal experience isn't exactly meaningful here, especially when that's the only 'evidence' you include instead of the 'few hundred references' you supposedly have (read?).
I got 2 mRNA vaccines, and I got non-asymptomatic covid twice after getting the vaccines.
I'd like to see more discussion on this topic in an open, respectful manner. Your comment is the opposite of that.
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