What are you asking, exactly? Driving clearly requires a lot of knowledge and skill, from the workings of vehicles to the rules of the road, and a lot of practice to be able to develop the skill necessary to move the vehicle around in the framework. Nobody is born able to drive and nowadays most jurisdictions require a lengthy apprenticeship under another experienced driver before one is able to move into being licensed to drive on their own accord because history has proven that it takes a long time to develop the necessary skills. Even then, it is questionable if drivers are skilled enough, but such is life.
Indeed, it is a common skill[1], at least in car-centric North America where there has been a strong incentive for all to learn those skills. That makes it not particularly valuable to offer as a service. Why pay someone to do work you can, in most cases, just as easily do yourself? It has to be quite cheap for you to consider it. But that's something else entirely.
[1] Albeit a dwindling one. While ~85% of American adults have their driver's license, only ~60% of 18-year-olds do, down from ~80% in the 1980s. The youth today are backing away from obtaining this particular skill as compared to the past.
There's no assumption that all students will need or want to learn how to drive, so it's not a part of any standard curriculum; you pass the exam and get a driving licence when and if you're ready for that.
Many do it soon after they can, many do it later as adults, and many never do. In UK only ~35% of adults aged 17-20 and ~65% of 20-29 have a driving licence; I assume that this is a bit different in USA.
For the typical (certainly US) driver, the initial training is just to get to a minimally viable set of skills so they can pass their driving test. The vast majority of people aren't taking performance driving courses to get their drivers licenses. I'd pretty much guarantee that almost every driver is more skilled 10 years after they get their license.
Here's the thing--they hand out drivers licenses to anyone. You need virtually no skills whatsoever to pass a road test here in the States.
If I asked everyone on HN what steers the rear of a motor vehicle; I'd guess only 10% would guess correctly, and we're talking about some of the smartest most well read people on the Planet here. If I asked everyone on HN how many times they have practiced stopping their car from high speed in the shortest time possible, and were competent braking at high speed; I'd round that guess to virtually 0. Let's talk about the wet; can you control the car when it fishtails? Can you stop quickly in the rain? No and no.
You simply can not be competent in a life and death situation without training, nor without a basic understanding of vehicle dynamics. You just can't. Now I'm not saying Everyone must be able to toss the car into a corner, get it sideways and clip the apex while whistling a happy tune; but for god's sakes can we at least mandate 2 days of training at a closed course by an instructor who has a clue about how to drive? That would absolutely save lives... lots and lots of lives.
Which brings me to my favorite feature of some of these "self driving" cars: all of a sudden, with No warning whatsoever the computer says hey I'm fucked here --you have to drive now and save us all from certain disaster. I probably could not do that, and I sure as hell can toss a street car sideways into the corner while whistling a happy tune.
I think it’s funny how driving has become such a “required skill” in the states. I have a lot of friends who are in their 30s or older who haven’t ever been behind the wheel. It shows how what one person perceives as an essential skill is nothing to another person.
> If done by car it requires a drivers' license, putting it several steps above zero-training
Outside of a few major cities with comprehensive public transit, having a driver's license is practically a necessity for survival in the United States. Driving is not a skill that elevates anyone beyond the most basic level of employability.
It's like that in America because it has to be. If you required real driving skill from American drivers just to get a license, most of them would fail. It works in some other countries because people there are able to live without a car, and having a car is a luxury. In America, it's a requirement for basic survival in most places because America decided decades ago that it wanted things to be that way, and built everything with that basic assumption.
You can't expect good competency in something like driving from 99% of the public; you're just not going to get it, no matter what it is.
Well, driving is pretty easy and a virtual necessity. You can't drive without a license and you can't learn to drive without doing it. Most people take a class and/or get a learner's permit at a young age. They aren't crazy. If you are a new driver, going fast is scary and you'll avoid it until you have mastered basic driving on slow streets.
The only country I've heard of where getting a basic driver's license is remotely hard is Germany, and it's because of the Autobahn. I forgot the details but I think you have to take a long class and clock a certain number of hours, and pay a couple thousand dollars equivalent. That kind of crap simply is not necessary in 90% of the US which is slow suburban traffic, where people can live for years without even going onto a highway once.
I wholeheartedly support the idea of increasing the standards for driving skill, training and ability. I've heard in Norway/Sweden that you have to spend a large amount of time and money training specifically for night driving, snow driving, standard driving, etc.
I know in most European countries getting a motorcycle license is far more difficult, expensive and restricting than in the US. Consequently, I bet they are more skilled drivers.
I've been in the car with so many people in the US that say they know how to (and are licensed to) drive, but yet clearly don't know how to drive. They are unaware of the most basic mechanics of how the car actually moves. The terms oversteer and understeer are completely foreign to them. They probably don't even know if their vehicle is front or rear wheel drive. And of course most couldn't parallel park if the street was empty.
Yet with the way we've architected America (huge and sprawling), everyone feels entitled and required to have a car. I moved to Ohio about a year ago, and apparently there's laws here that allow even 13 and 14 year olds to drive if no one else in the family can. I'm guessing in most countries the response wouldn't be to give a kid a license, but to say, "move to a city" or "here's some public transit". On the flip side, there are clearly many elderly that shouldn't be driving. Driving should be something you have to test for every few years, and that you're expected to always get better results on the test.
Yeah - we seem to hand out licenses like candy in some or most states here in the US.
I'll be the first to say I'm not a great driver. I can and have driven long distances, but I always know I can do better. But all of our training here in the US to pass the test is mainly "ad-hoc". There isn't any kind of "certified training" program that you have to take and pass in order to then get a license. But there probably should be.
Honestly, what there really needs to be is such a program, but done over the course of weeks at a facility like what is used at the Bondurant Racing School (https://bondurant.com/). Having that kind of knowledge and experience to really know your vehicle and its capabilities (both what it can and can't do, and how to handle an emergency) might go a long way toward making better drivers (now that I think of it, I might have to go to that school myself - assuming I can afford it).
I think if we did do a better, stricter job at teaching drivers how to drive, and requiring it for a license, it would go a long way to cutting down on accidents. It wouldn't eliminate them, but it would surely reduce them, probably severely. Learning to keep control of emotions, and also handle stressful situations while driving would have to be a part of this as well.
It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would probably be a damn sight better than what we currently do.
I mean getting you're license doesn't mean you will own a car and get insurance, it's certainly a life skill to know how to drive, where many schools are still providing services that people just aren't taking full advantage of.
Being a professional driver (even aided by GPS and Waze) and speaking fluent English are absolutely valuable skills on the US market.
One in five US residents speaks a language other than English at home. Of those that speak a language other than English, only 58% speak English "very well" Older people are less likely to speak English "very well" than younger people. https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acs-22.pdf
So when you're looking at the bottom 10% or so of the workforce, speaking fluent English is a HUGELY marketable job skill.
And if you want to drive for Uber, you need to meet Uber's requirements. You need to be 21 or older. You need to have 3 years of driving experience (you can't just go out and get a license if you decide you want to drive for Uber). Clean driving record, background check, no criminal history at all in the last 7 years...
You need to have a clean 4-door sedan in good condition that can pass an inspection.
Even if you manage to jump through all those hoops, driving for Uber can be customer service in the extreme. Sure, I can drive myself to the grocery store and back like a champ, but Uber drivers are driving on unfamiliar roads to unknown destinations every day. And they're doing it with a paying customer in the backseat. I live in Boston, and there are certain sections of town where the GPS routinely doesn't work/jumps around, and those sections happen to be a minefield of winding one-way streets and construction.
How do you deal with GPS issues? Surprise construction? Traffic that Waze didn't predict? How do you mollify customers when things go wrong? Can you drive defensively and still make a timely arrival to your destination? I've taken a lot of Ubers and have seen some REALLY bad drivers, and some really fantastic ones that handled the car like a pro.
My point is, working as a cook at McDonalds requires far fewer resources and job skills than driving an Uber, hands down. You could make a more compelling argument for working the register, but cooking fries is trivial and requires very few skills or resources.
I teach driving lessons as a job. Adults usually become proficient a little faster than kids, as they take it more seriously and have learned the laws through osmosis. Most of the time the difficulty with adults is they have no one to practice with.
Regarding skill, I think it's genetic. Some people can get their license in a week, others it takes months. Video game skills probably help.
Meaningful training is not required to get a driver's license in the U.S. In most states it is completely adequate for a parent to teach you to drive, with no minimum number of hours in a classroom, public or private.
Pilots also receive ongoing currency training. This doesn't exist for automobile drivers. Maybe some states require a written test every few years? But in the three states I've lived in, no written, oral, or in-car test it recurrency training required since the original was issued when I was 15 or whenever.
Is driving really unskilled? Most people take a course to learn and you have to be tested and regularly licensed to legally operate a vehicle on public roads.
Most middle- and upper-class Americans take a driver’s education course (like what you’ve described) prior to receiving their driver’s license. In 10 years it won’t even be necessary because nobody’s going to be driving themselves anyway.
A bit of an outlier situation, but my parents never taught me to drive. Now the problem is not that I dont want to, but theres just no way to learn once you become an adult it seems. Driving school are optimized for teens and not compatible with a full time schedule.
Indeed, it is a common skill[1], at least in car-centric North America where there has been a strong incentive for all to learn those skills. That makes it not particularly valuable to offer as a service. Why pay someone to do work you can, in most cases, just as easily do yourself? It has to be quite cheap for you to consider it. But that's something else entirely.
[1] Albeit a dwindling one. While ~85% of American adults have their driver's license, only ~60% of 18-year-olds do, down from ~80% in the 1980s. The youth today are backing away from obtaining this particular skill as compared to the past.
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