This is exactly what union usually work for though. High barrier of entry combined with high salary. It's just that union fought to keep it that way instead of at the whim of company.
But still, looks like this is why software engineers are very allergic of union. The same environment already guarantees those properties and adding union on top only makes it sour. That environment's disappearance lately make union possible once more.
I think part of it is because the gap between the skill floor and ceiling is absolutely gargantuan. Unions work best when the skill gap is narrow, and ascension to different levels easily measurable.
The more I think about it, software engineering is almost completely antithetical to the idea of unions. Traditional engineers have so much structure around their fields because the laws of physics govern a large part of their craft. Not so with SE.
So long as the software industry is expanding, the salaries are growing and software engineers have freedom to jump ships, I don't see unions coming. The recipe to make a union is to lock thousands of grumpy software engineers in a bureaucratic company with stagnant wages.
Unions make sure everyone gets paid fairly equally. That doesn't work in a top heavy profession like software engineering where the top are 5x better and paid 5x more than the bottom.
I don't think I'd join or support a software union even though I think unions are a good idea in general. Software engineering is one of the few careers where the market has actually forced a decent balance between labor and management.
Realistically, unionized software engineers would make hilariously less money than FAANG people are making right now. At least, that's what I'd assume from looking at how things work in Europe.
I think that the main problem with unions for software developers, especially at this particular time, is that tech recruitment is very much a sellers' market at the moment. Most of the companies have a lot of troubles finding quality developers of all levels, remuneration is growing to absurd levels and short-term contracting is almost a norm rather than an exception. For a moderately experienced developer, changing jobs is both a) trivial, and b) often the best way to ensure promotion and pay rise.
Unions were designed for a market where employers were taking advantage of job scarcity and insecurity, and where changing jobs often meant difficult re-training for new equipment and methodologies, which was often provided by unions. That does not exist today, at least in the software industry; a solid GutHub account is a much better certification than any training or even a university diploma.
My point is that, for the majority of software people, traditional unions can barely give any benefits over the power they can have themselves. And for the best people it can even provide disadvantages by lowering the standards.
Software engineers are shooting themselves in the foot. When you live in a society built around greed, it is imperative that you push to collect as much of the value you create.
Unions can be extremely helpful. SWE would be the perfect people to build new custom solutions for unions to get around many of the negative externalities caused by unions.
However, people don't want to unionize while they still have leverage. When software engineers are finally ready to unionize, they're going to have way less leverage and get much worse deals.
The other reply to this comment is why software engineers don't unionize. Many think they're better off without a union, but a large number go even further and are adamantly opposed to the existence of unions
I might join a union of all software engineers in order to help junior engineers keep from getting completely burned out or horribly exploited, but I wouldn't join a union of elite FAANG engineers. I'm pretty sure the $250-$500k we can command is the most we can reasonably expect companies to be able to pay, since there's a ton of competition among them to hire us already
Otherwise, someone would've collected some VC money, hired the best of the best code monkeys for $1M+ each, and taken over some tech niche by now
In a business with so many opportunities, it makes little sense to organize. I've met a few Software Engineers here in the US who talked about unionization, including some who were actually in one of the minor Software Engineering unions, but they were invariably among the bottom performers.
For the top 50%, unionization would mean lower wages and benefits; for lower income workers in fields without well-established pay-for-performance policies, that's a different story.
I'm completely okay with underperforming software engineers getting fired. I don't want some system that I'm paying for with my union dues helping them maintain a job that they don't deserve.
On the other hand, I've never seen a deserving and talented software engineer out of a job for very long. And if you're talented you will get paid much much more than average.
The only software engineers that want or need a union are the ones that need artificial barriers to keep them employed.
I am familiar with unions and union history. Also union busting efforts and the growth of unions until the 80s during the Reagan era - but to compare a factory worker or a longshoreman to software engineers feels like a facetious comparison with little merit IMO.
I worked at a retail job briefly after high school and it was a joke that I had to pay union due by law in the state of Maryland.
Software engineers are politically probably one of the strongest positioned labor groups in modern history, up their with probably high finance and heirs of huge fortunes. The fact of the matter is that most people don't want to work the vast majority of union jobs and simultaneously, corporations are willing to offshore many of these labor requirements in part due to the cost burden. Sure, management takes home a lot, but honestly I'm unsympathetic to most union industries and I shouldn't have to pay another tax to some obscure group to handle issues.
Right, which is why there are basically no unionized software engineering jobs in USA. I'd rather not be forced to change jobs just because you want to join a union. Your love for strict unions means that most people who want a software union isn't allowed to get one since most of their colleagues don't want one.
If you can become an enemy of the union simply by being good at your individual-contributor job, maybe that's why unions haven't really taken off in software engineering.
But still, looks like this is why software engineers are very allergic of union. The same environment already guarantees those properties and adding union on top only makes it sour. That environment's disappearance lately make union possible once more.
reply