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> We already assume the network is insecure.

Maybe naively, I wish this assumption became universal.



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> They're not exactly insecure, they're just used for different things, like networks that are already secure.

There is no such thing.

I'd be pedantic and rephrase this to - used for networks which you trust.


> That is probably based on the idea that any local attack is going to end up being a complete compromise of the end point ... which is not an unreasonable assumption.

It's absolutely unreasonable.

If my endpoint is compromised, should I assume my key is potentially violated, and so change it? Yes

But should I assume that everything in my life is tainted and therefore pre-emptively expose all my secrets to attackers immediately? Of course not.


> I don't understand what would make someone think that possibly-compromised security is worse than no security.

False sense of security - you think your communications are secure but they're not.


> Of course security can lead to operational problems.

So can lack of security.


> I'd bet it's secure enough against anything that is not the NSA / equivalent foreign agencies. Now would I bet against those big players? Certainly not.

Which is another shortcut that boils down to saying "nothing is secure".

I have a beef with broad statements like that :].


> This does not mean that it's "inherently" insecure.

It's a pretty strong indicator though.


> In practice, nothing is ever secure,

Well that's clearly not true.


> All that though is an edge case that probably doesn't apply 99% of the time.

The same could be said for many necessary security measures.


> to make networks less safe

Could it be substituted by "to get into a network"? Then it could be argued that they need adversaries to establish reliance on a working network.


> if the communications across the cable are properly secured

I think the history of human communications is an ample demonstration of why this is a poor assumption.


> the security argument is moot anyways

Sorry, I’m missing something, what security concerns are you referring to?


> only a small handful of people needs that amount of security

Everyone is vulnerable to fraud, identity theft, blackmail etc. Everyone needs a secure device.

If your argument is that insecure devices are ok for most people, you’ve already lost.


> Surely those who need that level of security should take the responsibility to enable it

That implies two code paths, one that enables the security and one that doesn't. That is more complicated (and less testable!) than either code-path on its own.

Security costs more than insecurity, but sometimes-security is the worst of all worlds.


> Security is provided by a firewall.

Right so as I said elsewhere I'll be dropping all packets for incoming connections at the firewall. I was heavily downvoted for that comment... I guess a lot of folk will leave insecure devices open to the world.


> Modern day internet architecture is very secure.

Seriously? That doesn't seem to match the outcomes of regular breeches, 0-days, etc. - many reported right here. The state of security is often considered terrible and unrepairable; experts advise assuming you have been breeched.


> we need to always default to secure.

This.


> Nobody said it would need to be secure?

Then ignore the security warnings.


> inherently secure

Who told you that? I don't think "inherently secure" is a thing in the tech industry.


> People say this about a lot of security things

Unfortunately those people are often correct.

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