Because Germany has no interest in Kaliningrad and Poland has no (or a very weak) claim, I'd say should it come to that, Kaliningrad will be demilitarized and then "given back" to Russia.
And the argument was about nukes, in the event NATO invades Kaliningrad because of missle sites, not if it should or would.
Funnily the staunchest supporters of Putin in Germany (Nazis) would also be the only ones who would like to have Königsberg back.
Kaliningrad was annexed into the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic ie. Russia proper end of WW II. Any surrounding countries literally would have had to start a war with Russia to occupy it.
Germany doesn't claim Königsberg, now known as Kaliningrad, or any of the territories it ceded to France, Russia, Poland, and I believe Lithuania after World War II.
The bits debating territories East of the Oder are interesting, especially in light of current events.
At one point someone even asks if “Russia” [sic] get to keep the “bits” it stole while collaborating with Hitler.
Of course, those bits now belong to Ukraine.
At one point someone says “Look, Matt, that is the kind of debate we don't need at all in this situation”.
I strongly disagree. Vigorous debates are important. Unified Germany eventually agreed to “cede” the land east of the Oder in 1991.
That’s fine, but if Poland or Germany exit the EU there could be some hard feelings if German residents were deported from Poland.
For its part, Poland is still filled with hard feelings regarding Germany’s WWII conduct. If agreeing to give Poland the land east of the Oder was meant to smooth things over, it failed.
Germany is much better at remembering what needs to be remembered, and forgetting what needs to be forgotten. Maybe a bit too good.
Yes, I've read the wiki. It's still a part of the Ukraine. Similarly, Kaliningrad was part of Germany (Prussia) until end of WW2. Yet if Germany invaded Kaliningrad today, it would still be perceived as declaration of war.
I think this is a dupe? I assume Poland is demanding similar reparations from Russia (as successor to the ussr) for the deaths and partitioning that occurred? Given that Poland was “moved west” as an outcome of the war, Germany should demand its lost territory back that is now in Poland. Poland can go to Russia to get its lost territory back so as to restore the pre wwii borders.
Or, Germany and Poland can call it a wash and Poland can go after Russian to settle its issues with the ussr.
Kalinigrad was Prussian. L'viv and Vilnius were Polish. Szczecin and Wroclaw were German. That was only 80 years ago. 100 years ago there was no Poland, and no USSR.
These cities changed hands every 50 years or less for last few centuries. It's useless to argue about these things.
Basically whole C&E Europe is a huge barrel of powder. If you start to do this stuff (this is MINE because history) the powder will explode.
That's why nobody (except Russia) do it. Even the worst nationalists in Poland don't actually want L'viv or Vilnius. Even though L'viv was a very important city for Polish culture and still 80 years later there are songs about how great a city Lwów was (French wouldn't understand, you only have one city ;) ). It was Polish San Francisco, and we don't want it back.
That's because we know that we are only safe because we're past the WW2 era of petty nationalisms. We've learnt our lesson.
Putin doesn't care - he knows EU is not united enough to react, so he basically replays Hitler 1938 strategy and he goes away with it. French traditionally don't want to die for Danzig(Donetsk this time), they even sell weapons to Putin. Great job, guys.
It's very frustrating to see it in real life and see how useless and clueless western politicians are. Like nobody learnt anything from WW2.
> 1. Germany isn't on the Eastern Front. Poland actually borders Russia (the exclave on the Baltic.)
The Kaliningrad exclave is quite small, but it poses a real danger when the Suwalki Gap is taken into account. Given Belarus' friendly ties with Russia, there is only a small band of land that needs to be cut off to trap the Baltic states. It's important to secure that stretch. Ideally, Belarus would serve as a buffer, but that's a very difficult thing to achieve. Also good would be the ceding of Kaliningrad to Poland and Lithuania (historically, that region was a vassal of the Polish Crown). Perhaps in exchange for recognition of Russia's annexation of Crimea. Good luck with that, I guess.
Ideally, the Central European states east of Germany can play the US, Germany/EU, and Russia off each other to guarantee that the region is free from hegemonic dominance. Historically until the late 18th century, Polish dominance guaranteed stability and peace in the region. As both historical heir and as the largest country of the block, it is important the Poland resume its historical and geopolitically necessary role if Poland and the other states represented in the Three Seas Initiative are to remain free and prosperous. The stability offered would also benefit European stability by creating a bulwark against both Western and Eastern imperial ambitions.
And the argument was about nukes, in the event NATO invades Kaliningrad because of missle sites, not if it should or would.
Funnily the staunchest supporters of Putin in Germany (Nazis) would also be the only ones who would like to have Königsberg back.
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