The fraction of people in EU countries who just want to exist on social welfare and have no aspirations is miniscule. That's just propaganda and a narrative spun by the rich to avoid paying taxes as much as possible. Not backed by any data.
> this is where the large majority of my tax euros go.
Actually this isn't true. your tax euros go to paying down the debt on loans taken out to pay for these things. Under this system ultimately one of two things happens -- it's either unsustainable and you lose those niceties, or, the euro gets devalued and the only way you get those niceties is by absolutely routing the lower class (even under European gas and water socialism the divide between rich and poor is increasing.
Get ready for a big hike in this divide over the next five years as the euro loses its PPP and needs to start defense spending to safeguard trading relationships). Especially hurt will be underprivileged Europeans, like stateless Turks in Germany or immigrants living in banlieues in France.
> there is also a lot of money thrown in businesses in the form of EU subsidies.
And that money is mostly a complete waste. EU money comes with so many strings and baggage that you are either big enough and have the resources to deal with it (and thus you don't actually need it), or you are small and make it your entire business model to live off EU funds and not produce anything of value ever.
> It’s the only major EU country whose economy shrank last quarter, it’s mired in endless bureaucracy and red tape and its governing coalition is adding to the problem by discontinuing existing (nuclear) energy supplies, introducing cumbersome legislation and having an overall agenda that purely focuses on redistribution with no concern for value generation.
This is pretty spot on. People voted socialism, people got socialism, shrouded in green utopianism. There is no positive vision of the future, only guilt and shame about the things we consume and hare-brained schemes about where energy is supposed to come from. Redistribution without concern for value generation sums it up pretty well.
not really truth, all of these poor countries had huge growth prior joining EU and it just continued after joining EU same as it would continue without joining, not thanks to EU, which is wishful thinking of EU proponents, look at Serbia GDP growth for instance, higher than any EU country and even fresh EU members Bulgaria and Romania had huge growth prior joining, same with central Europe, you will have trouble finding poor non EU country without massive growth
but yes money wise it's beneficial for poor countries to be net receiver of funds, for well of countries which are around zero contributor/benefactor there are hardly any benefits left
> EU did a great job at distributing wealth eastward
That's uncharitable. The EU did a great job of growing Eastern Europe by promoting good institutions. There was wealth redistribution. But it alone is insufficient to explain the growth.
Again this FUD? That's just pro-super wealthy propaganda that hasn't been proven true because it has never been done because of this propaganda FUD that the elites will leave.
Most of Europe's elite has their wealth in land. They can leave but they can't take the land with them.
Europe can't function if member states engage in zero tax for the wealthy race to the bottom. Nobody wins but the wealthy elite. Not all countries are Monaco.
> Literally all of the EU have a massively lower rate and in none of the countries it is remotely illegal to criticize the government.
Yes, and? I didn't say that's the case in every country with a lower rate, I said there's countries that have a lower rate, but can hardly be called free. To judge something as complex as this by a single metric doesn't even pass the smell test.
> -in the grand scheme of things the EU really seems one of best governmental institutions for the "common people". At least relative to comparable institutions, it appears driven by an intention to do some good.
cherry picking the EU policies much? The EU has shown again and again they are completely incompetent to make a proper economic market in Europe, or even have semi-consistent regulations across the different borders.
> Basically all of what you said is empty populist propaganda that doesn't pass a basic sniff test. You're painting the EU as the bad guy with a broad brush and it's just total nonsense.
It's fascinating how subjective dimensions of reality have the appearance of being objective, and how this seems to be increasing over time.
> a lot of poorer EU citizens did go to the UK to essentially go on welfare
Do you have actual sources to back this up? As in, where it actually happened, as opposed to everyone talking about it supposedly happening? EU law makes it very clear that the freedom of movement does not hold in such cases. EU citizens who never worked in the UK would not be entitled to welfare and be subject to repatriation. (Or, I should say, if the UK did grant such welfare rights, that would be based on its own decision, not on any EU requirements.)
> “The Eurozone is fatally flawed because they share a currency but have no transfer payments between rich and poor members.”
This is incorrect. The EU has substantial transfer payments. Wealthier EU countries (like Germany) subsidise poorer ones (like Poland) on the order of tens of billions of Euros annually.
Regional development (subsidies for poorer areas) is the second largest EU budget line item after agriculture.
> Just be glad that the EU's been relatively benign so far.
The creation of free movement of people, goods, services and capital across 28 States and creating a common currency used by many of them is arguably not “benign”.
For avoidance of doubt I’m in no way expressing an opinion on the merits of these - simply that it is not benign in the sense of having done nothing.
The fraction of people in EU countries who just want to exist on social welfare and have no aspirations is miniscule. That's just propaganda and a narrative spun by the rich to avoid paying taxes as much as possible. Not backed by any data.
reply