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The US is also right about China. Europe is just bad at this.


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Europe and China disagree with you.

And in every case the US was right and the EU was wrong.

Only a fool would tie themselves to China as things stand right now.


Right, Europe is just as bad as China as well.

The US seems to be geographically closer to Europe than China, so I'm not sure how this point would make Europe choose China over the US.

I don't disagree, but China was just an example of a country that could feasibly tell them to get bent. What would they do about it? Trade sanctions? Most of the shit in Europe is made in China, too.

The EU is much closer to the US than China is, however.

The problem with China is that it has taken a hostile non-cooperative approach, ie it’s acting in bad faith. This is evidenced by its diplomatic failures with the region and with the world. The CCP is using economic leverage to coerce smaller players in the global system. The US has its hands tied here, there really are no other options geopolitically.

I live in Europe as well, and sometimes it feels like European leadership is extremely confused: EU is a shitshow that nobody seems to be able to lead (just look at how long it took for agreeing on debt mutualization/Eurobond, Brexit, VDL apologizing to Italy, etc), Germany working with Russia on Nord stream 2 after its actions in Ukraine, Sweden pretending like the lax virus approach has nothing to do with its hyper leveraged banks and heavily indebted households, list goes on... and all we can do is entertain ourselves by making fun of Trump. We are a joke, we can’t even keep our union together. We can’t even pay for our military because daddy America has to foot the bill and if they don’t our European leaders start whining about lack of US leadership.

The US Fed had enough vision to extend the dollar swap lines to more central banks including the Swedish central bank. For the ECB there is a permanent arrangement. Despite the “tough love“ we Europeans are getting on trade from the US, ultimately Europe will soon enough realize the US is its best ally.

We just want freedom and fair economic practices. We won’t get it if we let China play communist game theory with the only planet we have.


Europe has done pretty much everything the US wants, from spying on our citizens to foreign companies paying little to no tax. All you hear these days is how lame Europe is because we don't have a Facebook and how we should all move to the overpriced small town of SV. China doesn't only have a Facebook, it has a Google, an Amazon and an Uber. Which are in many ways surpassing their US counterparts. Since when was trade ever fair? I think the bigger thing here is just that China isn't in the US sphere of influence in terms of politics, but also in terms of culture and it's treating them quite well.

China is competently run, Europe is not.

If that were true, the US would treat Europe as even bigger an enemy than China.

As a european, I'll take US over China any day.

Anti-US circlejerk is mostly confined in Western europe (sans Brits). Eastern europe has totally different sentiment.


So is Europe. But do you really want the US to be relative to China as Europe is relative to the US?

They weren't talking about simply any other country, but China specifically. In terms of government interference and freedom of thought, at this point I think the US is still pretty clearly the better place. From the point of view of the EU, though, it is edging closer to China.

i guess that's the point - china out-us-ed the US and out-europed Europe.

China and US is not comparable to {EU Country} and Pakistan.

Why does it mean they're right? These EU states are using this tech because it's easy. Doing the right thing is usually not the easy way.

Also, economic growth is not the measure of a state that's good for its citizens. I think we're doing a lot better than China there.

This just means we have to keep fighting it.


EU has much more concerns about China than about the US fyi.

We were talking about Europe, not China.

It's not like that's a particular problem for Europe though. The US imports more from China than from any other country, and about the same as it imports from the entire Euro zone.
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