> There's a reason the big NYC area malls are in Paramus and Elizabeth.
I think the reason is that malls are just out-of-fashion.
If we consider the SoHo area to be the equivalent of a mall, or the North Williamsburg/Greenpoint area to be a mall, I'd bet they dwarf the Paramus & Elizabeth malls in GMV sold and foot traffic.
>The decline of the mall is an American thing, and its reasons are not entirely clear.
I remember an article in the Economist a few years ago that said America had nine times the square footage of mall space compared to the UK. If they have a decline it's probably because they overbuilt in the past.
> The traditional closed-air mall is in fact dying, in most locales across the country.
I'm seeing the exact opposite.
> The transition to online shopping reduces the need for trips to the big box "anchor" stores
Most of the malls in this area have transitioned to entertainment destinations. Huge movie theaters, the stores are more showroom ... Tesla, Perch, Apple, etc., tons of restaurants.
Apparently the cost is 3.5 billion? The new mall will have an ice rink, amusement park, water park, concert hall, movie theater, and an indoor 12-story ski slope for skiing, snowboarding and tubing.
> I think that malls could make a huge comeback with a focus on events that naturally draw people in and an emphasis on the kinds of high-touch products that people generally do prefer to buy in person.
Land prices in the cities where malls are developed have inflated past the carrying capacity of the prevailing disposable income in the same areas.
>there is simply more retail-zoned space than is necessary in the delivery age
Although higher-end malls in growing cities are mostly doing pretty well, there's certainly no reason to think that urban retail in general should be immune from at least some of the same forces that help create the "dead mall" phenomenon.
I was walking through Cambridge yesterday for the first time in a while. In addition to a non-trivial number of empty storefronts my sense was that there was at least a bit of a shift away from retail and towards trendy-looking restaurants.
>The decline of the mall is an American thing, and its reasons are not entirely clear.
As an American, I can tell you why:
* They are fucking filthy. Literally every mall I visited back in the day fucking stank. I fucking hated them, my nose died every time.
* Their prices aren't competitive (note: they don't have to be cheap, I don't mind expensive goods), their selection is poor, and the quality of the goods are questionable.
Between online shopping and physical stores located outside of malls with better prices, selections, and quality there just aren't any reasons to bother going to those hellscapes.
> Which seemingly, would have prevented the malls from collapsing.
I don't think nearby residence areas would have prevented malls from collapsing.
Online shopping made them largely obsolete as a place to actually shop, with many going bankrupt and others hanging on by a thread. Then a global pandemic cut some of the remaining threads.
>But B&Ns are typically located as drive-up "out of town" shopping. Somewhere you need to go to intentionally. They need to be in malls.
Malls are dying in the US, though. The only malls that remain successful these days feature more upscale products in affluent areas that people want to see in person before purchasing. For everything else, shoppers seem to prefer your outlet style strip malls where there's less crowding and inconvenience. Or if they can wait a day or two, just order it online.
> Malls are going to start becoming ghost towns, especially with no anchor stores like Penny's and the since-departed Sears.
Pretty sure that already happened. The US built waaay too much retail space[1], and still[2] has an overhang in most markets. And yea, Amazon kinda ate the Sears / JCPenny lunch, which has not helped matters.
> Amazon and other online shopping venues decimated these brick and mortar shopping venues
Brick and mortar stores are still just fine (or better thanks to Yuppies). Malls are getting decimated by Amazon and cultural trends against malls. The 80s suburban world where malls are the place to hangout is fading fast.
> Malls aren't dying. Some malls are, but that has nothing to do with the mall paradigm and has more to do with the local population. A mall can't get up and move. It's like a tree. It is where it is and it either thrives or dies.
I would argue this is exactly why malls are dying, that they can't keep up with more and more rapidly evolving socio-economic trends and shifting demographics across geographies. Another byproduct of globalization and technology-driven streamlining of commerce
>Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors.
Which makes sense, as their main purpose is to be places to shop for clothes, electronics, kitchenware, and so on, not any of those other things.
> Even in areas where there is no true urban center, or the urban center remains essentially deserted, Malls are still dying at a phenomenal rate. The Internet and technology, has largely killed the mall. The Mall may live, but they're on life support.
Is this true? Current data largely supports the opposite argument.
There's no trend of malls (in general) going away, but of old/overbuilt/poorly-located malls dying (or their market dying) while new malls (or new types of malls) are being built. Most major markets are experiencing retail growth (net positive total retail sqft market-wide), despite many bad malls dying off.
> They're not urban shopping centers, they're urban entertainment centers that happen to have shopping.
Malls have always had a significant amount of entertainment. Nearly every major mall has had (and still has) a movie theatre and multiple restaurants. Some of folks may even remember a time when almost every mall had an arcade in it.
The "dead mall" story is a lot like pointing at Detroit or Flint or Baltimore and saying, "look at all those boarded up homes. Housing is dead! People hate having a place to live.". That may certainly be true in those specific areas, but most markets are actually experiencing modest-to-insane amounts of growth.
> Malls put forward a psuedo-utopian view of society, a place where people can come together (for commerce)
Are you serious?! Cookie cutter strip malls in every American suburb are very close to dystopia to me. I'd think that people who enjoy coming together for shopping would prefer a walkable downtown area with shops that are not chains, but are owned by the people who run them.
That's the only kind of thing that can compete with e-commerce.
I think the reason is that malls are just out-of-fashion.
If we consider the SoHo area to be the equivalent of a mall, or the North Williamsburg/Greenpoint area to be a mall, I'd bet they dwarf the Paramus & Elizabeth malls in GMV sold and foot traffic.
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