From my experience, depends on the kid. Some kids have all the access in the world and are even "skilled" with the TV and YouTube (tablets) but don't care. They prefer playing with cats, dogs and birds outside, mess up the garage, get dirty playing in the mud, etc.
There are other kids that won't see a computer until the age of 18. But when they do, they're gonna install linux and end up leading SRE teams without a degree in CS.
There are high level patterns, but humans are unique and require different amounts of supervision.
If your goal is for your kids to not have access to smartphone apps, dangers and distractions, I fear it'll fail spectacularly.
If your goal is to build self reliance and problem solving skills, you may succeed in unintended ways.
I was born in 1979. I touched my first computer probably at age 6. I programmed in GWbasic when I was 10 or so, started turbo Pascal and oracle db lessons when I was 11. War started when I was 12, my dad got wounded when walking to work, and I was basically a fully fledged prepubescent adult partially responsible for family survival. And I am not special. (This is lateral to the meticulous way I built a flame thrower at 12 as well:)
Point is, 12 and 13 year olds are smart and resourceful and have a lot of time and motivation to outwit you. We somehow forget our 12 year old selves when we become adults. I reread enders game when I need to remind myself (my initial reaction to the book was "what a horribly unrealistic way to portray kids, they think like adults", followed by the realization I did think like that as a kid! We just start telling ourselves weird tales of superiority as we get old).
You are not repeat not going to successfully keep your kids from this stuff until they're 14. My 12 year old niece who is like the most innocent person I know taught me more about dark Web than I knew. You don't raise your child in isolation. They'll learn from you but also hundred other kids. You can hope to be involved and maybe, maybe guide. I fear that by not giving them access yourself in a guided fashion, all you'll be doing is ensuring they have it in unguided fashion.
(Fwiw I have a 2 and 4 year old and struggle with exact same questions coming up)
Neither of us have any data here, but I really doubt this is true. I suspect that any deficiency in technical skills at, say, age 12, can quickly be overcome. But the downsides in terms of problems with social, emotional, and behavioral development from being exposed to technology 24/7 from a young age seems like it might be much more difficult to overcome.
My position is that moderate and supervised technology use from a young age probably is the best path, but if the choice was between two extremes of “unrestricted access from 0-10 years old” and “no access from 0-10”, I think the latter is the choice that I’d make. I highly doubt my kids would be at a long-term disadvantage.
Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing.
My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he wants. It doesn't need to count as dangerous screen time, there is no internet to worry about, and he probably won't get addicted to a CLI at least. I mean, the alternative to that is probably no computer in his room until he is 16.
In my experience, kids that age can sense when you're working on the computer. They'll happily play by themselves when you're doing things like cleaning, cooking etc., but the moment you turn on the computer they'll be on you and won't let you "dissappear" into the machine. At least, that's my experience.
Most kids start their computing experience with tablets and mobile phones. Gnome has a very similar desktop metaphor being made to work as well on regular computers and tablets. My 9 and 12y/old daughters have never used windows and they are autonomous on the Fedora + Gnome laptop I lend them when needed for their homework or to watch streaming services.
I think other commenters emphasizing agency are spot-on. A kid needs to have enough leeway to get interested in whatever random things they feel like getting interested in. With computers around, he'll probably random-walk his way into engineering anyway.
I think it's good not to obsess about limits around computing time, even if the kid just plays games. As you most definitely know from your own experience, programming and electronics - or any other creative disciplines - are not things you do 3 times a week for 1 hour after you've done your homework. They require long and uninterrupted blocks of time. Setting a hard and short time limit for computer use pretty much ensures a kid will only play games, chat and browse cat pictures, because those are only fun things you can fit in tight schedule.
Games ain't bad - there are fun ones, there are ones with stories comparable to the most important works of literature and cinema, and if the kid starts to think about making his own (as I did when I was around 9) or (more popular today) making mods to the ones he like, it can lead straight to amateur gamedev and getting really good at programming very quickly.
Also, if he likes space, show him Kerbal Space Program at some point. It has an uncanny ability of getting people into aerospace and making 12yo better at physics than high school teachers.
You live in Germany, there's a strong hacker culture there. When he's little older, take him to a local hackerspace! People there are usually very friendly and can show some pretty cool DIY tech that could spark kid's interest in electronics and programming.
Lol, no. First, many many many kids are very clueless about technology and computers. Some kids will figure these or will be shown them by older siblings. And some other kids in their network will learn about these. But generally, majority of kids by themselves cant figure these at all. To add to it, many kids dont really have access to computer and all they know are phones and tablets. Consequently, they struggle with very basics.
Second, it is also not true that all the kids would be constantly trying to go out of bounds. There are many kids who are smart and actually don't want to break rules, fear breaking them or just simply wont go out of way to make adults angry.
We have a desktop computer, a few laptops, and a few iPads. I've never seen any of my kids (elementary school age up to college age) try to creatively explore the machine itself. I'm a programmer and I've even tried to interest them in programming. Nope. All they are interested in is Facebook, Instagram, and other web pages. If it doesn't take place in a browser windows, they have no interest. But, they aren't even interested in web development! A computer is just a tool. They have no more interest in looking under the hood than they do tearing apart the engine of a car to see how it works. As long as the car gets them from A to Z, that is all that matters. If it breaks, well, that is someone else's job to fix.
I think it's about the same amount of kids are tech savvy now as when I was a kid. Which is also scary, of course, but I don't think it's really less. It's just that non savvy kids are still immersed in tech; when I was growing up, kids could get through k-12 only touching a computer twice a year, if that's what worked for them/their families.
Right I’m assuming it’s not your typical kid and they’ve demonstrated that elsewhere. It’s clearly an open question what is going to engage the next generations with Linux/computers.
I’m not sure kids, especially recently born ones will ‘see’ computers. In the same way that most people don’t ‘see’ the abundant ressources around us. Air, water taps, power, cars, internet etc. These things will always have been there. Most children’s have a rectangle with multiple circles on it pointing at them from their first hour on earth.
It's naive to think these kids will commit themselves into any one device. Maybe they'll have a tablet but they'll also have access to a desktop or laptop, probably a gaming console and a SmartPhone too. Of course they'll also have nearly constant access to the Internet which is more than most of us had at that age and we turned out just fine.
Most children aren't able to recursively improve their own hardware and software in short time spans, and generally most children are unlikely to be many orders of magnitude more intelligent than their parents.
Yes, because every kid (at least in the 'developed' world) nowadays has web access but not every kid can install software on the machines they are allowed to use (for instance in school, the library or their parents' machine).
It is a fair point which is why I allow them to use it for research or learning without many limits.
But honestly even if they started programming and doing that type of activity I'd still pull the plug on them daily at some point. I did to my son until he hit around 16-17.
Everything in moderation is generally ok or neutral. Anything to excess almost always comes at a price not worth paying.
Just my opinion of course but a computer can't teach you to deal with adversity or people. Sure you can read about it but doing is always a better teacher.
There are other kids that won't see a computer until the age of 18. But when they do, they're gonna install linux and end up leading SRE teams without a degree in CS.
There are high level patterns, but humans are unique and require different amounts of supervision.
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